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The Spyder isn't the only on road vehicle that uses an electronic power steering system. Lots of cars nowadays also have these systems, so any one of them could also have a similar potential problem.
Yes thats true but I've never heard of a single instance of a car veering out of its driven path. All I'm saying is BRP needs to address this issue ASAP. They obviously know about it but they don't seem to be too over concerned about it. Maybe its just me?
 

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Yes thats true but I've never heard of a single instance of a car veering out of its driven path. All I'm saying is BRP needs to address this issue ASAP. They obviously know about it but they don't seem to be too over concerned about it. Maybe its just me?
Makes me really wonder about the woman who died not making her turn and hitting a tree.
Did her steering go and she could not react in time, scary.
 

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Yes thats true but I've never heard of a single instance of a car veering out of its driven path. All I'm saying is BRP needs to address this issue ASAP. They obviously know about it but they don't seem to be too over concerned about it. Maybe its just me?
This is exactly why I'm NOT concerned about it.

BRP wouldn't ignore this if they thought it was a hazard.
 

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The Spyder isn't the only on road vehicle that uses an electronic power steering system. Lots of cars nowadays also have these systems, so any one of them could also have a similar potential problem.
You've mentioned this in the past, but I think your statement is illogical. Here's why:

  1. If I have an accident in my car I'm surrounded by metal and airbags; the potential for personal injury is greatly reduced.
  2. My car's mass is nearly three times that of the Spyder. That means a Spyder can change directions MUCH easier; a slight twitch of my car's steering wheel will have much less effect on its direction and controllability as the same twitch on a Spyder's handlebars.
  3. Even if the affect of an electric power steering system failure COULD have the same severe effect in a car, to date, I've never heard of one exhibiting a failure mode like that described here for the Spyder. If there is a system fault, an electrically actuated steering system should simply disconnect itself and remove ANY influence it may have on controllability. This has not been the case with at least two Spyders whose owners have spoken up about it here on the forum.
  4. Finally, simply because another vehicle may have the same problem doesn't negate the fact the Spyder's electric power steering system has a dangerous failure mode.
Another forum member suggested the simple expedient of removing the fuse to the DPS, thus disabling it, provides a means of avoiding a dangerous failure mode until BRP acknowledges the problem and issues a fix. One can at least still continue to enjoy riding his/her Spyder, albeit minus the power steering, without fearing when or if the thing will decide to acquire a mind of its own.

If one of our forum members -- obviously a BRP and Spyder fan -- can make a casual observation connecting a fellow Spyder rider's tragic accident and death (ruled a "loss of control" by authorities) with a possible malfunction of the steering control system, imagine what a skilled attorney might do. I've mentioned this before, but I think it bears repeating; this issue has the potential to become very expensive for BRP. I hope someone there is reading this thread, because you can be sure the vultures... ahem... the lawyers are.

In my opinion, the longer BRP waits before issuing a formal statement to its customers regarding the potential for harm, the worse it will appear should such a case go to court. Yes, such a statement might temporarily hurt sales, but that seems better than losing the whole company to a lawsuit. "Let me get this straight Mr. BRP Executive... You learned of a dangerous failure mode with the Spyder's power steering system -- one which has the potential to cause a loss of control -- SIX MONTHS before warning your customers?" Doesn't sound like a question I'd want to have to answer...

I again urge all of you to speak with your dealers and BRP about this issue. If BRP is aware enough of its customers are concerned, it might act more quickly

Regards,

Mark
 

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You've mentioned this in the past, but I think your statement is illogical. Here's why:

  1. If I have an accident in my car I'm surrounded by metal and airbags; the potential for personal injury is greatly reduced.
  2. My car's mass is nearly three times that of the Spyder. That means a Spyder can change directions MUCH easier; a slight twitch of my car's steering wheel will have much less effect on its direction and controllability as the same twitch on a Spyder's handlebars.
  3. Even if the affect of an electric power steering system failure COULD have the same severe effect in a car, to date, I've never heard of one exhibiting a failure mode like that described here for the Spyder. If there is a system fault, an electrically actuated steering system should simply disconnect itself and remove ANY influence it may have on controllability. This has not been the case with at least two Spyders whose owners have spoken up about it here on the forum.
  4. Finally, simply because another vehicle may have the same problem doesn't negate the fact the Spyder's electric power steering system has a dangerous failure mode.
I wouldn't go so far as saying that my statement is "illogical". Here's why:

1. We all know that cars are safer than motorcycles.

2. How do you know that your car will have less of an effect on it's direction and controllability? Have you done tests?

3. Just because you haven't heard of any problems in cars (I've heard of a few....do a search) doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

4. How do we even know for sure if the Spyder's electric power steering system has a "dangerous" failure mode? Could road conditions, tire pressures, wheel alignment, vehicle loading, weight distribution etc also be factors? I know a lot of people here have been changing tire pressures to other than what's recommended for instance. Has it been proven that anyone has actually lost control? Seems everyone who's posted a problem so far have been able to keep the machine under control. We all have muscles and reflexes....what would happen if you had a front tire blowout? I'd imagine very similar forces could come into play.

So, everything you've said is just speculation.
 

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dps failure and limp home mode come on while doing atleast 50mph on a cyn curve. It felt like the dps suddenly engaged and the steering that was firm at this speed, insantly got soft for a split second causing me to look at display, lots of stuff lit up. pulled over checked manual, read to check dps fuse, it was fine, started back up and it was like nothing had happend. A rookie rider pushing there limit might of been in trouble. So word to the wise, steering problems are accuring and they happen fast and without warning.
 

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So, everything you've said is just speculation.
Not necessarily everything, but yes, I did (and still do) "speculate" that a DPS problem with a failure mode such as that described by those who have experienced it could lead to a serious accident, injury or death. Thankfully, that hasn't happened to anyone we know of.

I'm sorry if I offended you, spyryder -- it certainly wasn't my intent. It was my job for many years to speculate on "what ifs" in the name of accident prevention. I don't raise these questions to interfere with anyone's personal enjoyment, nor to suggest anyone made a bad decision in purchasing a Spyder. I happen to like our Spyder very much, and still enjoy riding it whenever I get the chance.

The fact is, we can both "speculate" 'til Christmas whether BRP's implementation of an electrically-assisted steering control system for the Spyder does or does not include a dangerous failure mode -- but that discussion misses the point. By questioning your logic in my earlier post, what I meant to say is I don't think anyone could logically argue against the notion that a failure mode affecting a rider's control of his/her Spyder holds the potential of great harm for the rider experiencing it -- certainly a much greater potential for harm than the occupant of an automobile experiencing a similar problem. Is that "speculation?" Yes, but I believe it to be speculation based on logic. I'm certainly open to any arguments which show my logic here to be faulty.

For my part, I'm satisfied in the veracity of the reports I've read here on this forum; in my mind, there is a very real possibility that a dangerous failure mode exists for the Spyder's DPS. I believe we should all carefully consider our options in seeking to avoid potential harm for ourselves and our passengers -- especially if we can do so without losing the use of our Spyders -- respectfully.

Please everyone, let's be safe out there...

Regards,

Mark
 

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Yes, this is why it's illogical to compare a Spyder and a car when considering a steering/control failure that could cause a loss of control. If I crash my car I have a much better chance of WALKING away...

I don't need a test to prove it requires less force to change the vector of a smaller mass -- this isn't speculation, it's physics.

I didn't say I haven't heard of problems with automotive electric power steering systems. I said I haven't heard of one with a similar failure mode as that being reported for the Spyder here on this forum. I suggested any failure of the DPS should result in its disabling itself to prevent its interference with a rider's control inputs -- that hasn't been the case in the incidents with confirmed DPS problems here on this forum.

Because BRP sent a factory rep to speak with at least one of the individuals who has reported a near loss of control incident resulting from a malfunctioning DPS. That sounds like a dangerous failure mode to me...

In the case of the individuals experiencing DPS problems with their Spyders I seem to recall these very questions being asked -- as far as I know, none were operating their Spyders outside of suggested parameters. Do you know something different? Speculation indeed...

I don't believe I've suggested anyone HAS actually lost control. What I have said is a malfunctioning control system adds considerably to the risk of losing control. You may be absolutely correct; none of the control problems reported here may ultimately be linked to a DPS failure mode. You are certainly free to wait until an incident involving a loss of control is definitively linked to a DPS problem before you act. Personally, I choose to err on the side of caution and believe such a failure mode MIGHT exist. After all, I lose nothing in doing so; I continue to operate our Spyder, albeit cautiously.

Yes, exactly. Riding is dangerous enough without the added risk of a malfunctioning control system. Taking care of my tires by maintaining proper pressure, and avoiding road hazards is the best I can do to avoid tire malfunctions. I know this because I understand the various tire failure modes. Shouldn't we also seek to understand all the potential failure modes of a critical system such as the DPS, especially in light of reported problems with it?

Not necessarily everything, but yes, I did (and still do) "speculate" that a DPS problem with a failure mode such as that described by those who have experienced it could lead to a serious accident, injury or death. Thankfully, that hasn't happened to anyone we know of.

I'm sorry if I offended you, spyryder -- it certainly wasn't my intent. It was my job for many years to speculate on "what ifs" in the name of accident prevention. I don't raise these questions to interfere with anyone's personal enjoyment, nor to suggest anyone made a bad decision in purchasing a Spyder. I happen to like our Spyder very much, and still enjoy riding it whenever I get the chance.

The fact is, we can both "speculate" 'til Christmas whether BRP's implementation of an electrically-assisted steering control system for the Spyder does or does not include a dangerous failure mode -- but that discussion misses the point. By questioning your logic in my earlier post, what I meant to say is I don't think anyone could logically argue against the notion that a failure mode affecting a rider's control of his/her Spyder holds the potential of great harm for the rider experiencing it -- certainly a much greater potential for harm than the occupant of an automobile experiencing a similar problem. Is that "speculation?" Yes, but I believe it to be speculation based on logic. I'm certainly open to any arguments which show my logic here to be faulty.

For my part, I'm satisfied in the veracity of the reports I've read here on this forum; in my mind, there is a very real possibility that a dangerous failure mode exists for the Spyder's DPS. I believe we should all carefully consider our options in seeking to avoid potential harm for ourselves and our passengers -- especially if we can do so without losing the use of our Spyders -- respectfully.

Please everyone, let's be safe out there...

Regards,

Mark
Thanks Mark, no offence taken.....you do bring up some good points. Just one point about cars and the Spyder and injuries. While the occupants of a car would likely walk away, what if one veers into the path of a Spyder?

Here's an interesting thread I dug up....check post#5 where the guy was going to church and passing a playground:

http://www.carcomplaints.com/Pontiac/G6/20...going_out.shtml
 

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looks like other people are not having this problem so 15000 for a spyder with a hindle and 250 miles is not a good deal after all, if it needs to go back to the shop for warranty steering fix. Do you agree?
Hello, I have a 2008 spyder rs SM5 I aam working on that the DPS has partially failed. Anyone some good sites where I could buy a second hand DPS that work on a 2008. Which I think it may be 2008 to 2011 units that are compatible with the software.
Anyone? Thanks
 
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