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Dudley
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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Smokster- In my Spyders I use BRP oil , no questions on warranty coverages, and the overall cost considering the number of quarts used a year is minimal. In my Buell I run Mobil 1 synthetic v twin motorcycle oil. I am very happy with its performance and when my warranty is up in both Spyders they will get it too. I went the amsoil route about 6 years ago and swear I will never make that mistake again.

Spyderwoman and Dudley- As far as the SE5's downshifting smoother with the purple.... I cannot say this from first hand knowledge as I have not ridden one with Purple... however common sense says perhaps there is a correlation. The synerlec additive package in Purple contains Moly. The SE5 clutch system while seemingly very hightech still is just a clutch. What it doesn't have the ability to be human , it can't sense "grab" and it can't feel "drag" so its a pretty unsophisticated downshift. (Have you ever heard a rookie downshift a bike? CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK)....anyways, the moly in the synerlec additive package coats clutch plates, thats a fact. (Its long term damage to fiber clutch plates is debatable as it builds a film up on the plates) . The plates being slippery(er) should by all means cause a less abrupt "feel" when downshifting. It basically "covers-up" the computer just poking the gear shift down without care and alows alittle slip, thus the smoother feel. So I won't discount that. The long term affects on the clutching system? Unknown. And that same smooth "slip" you feel on downshifts ABSOLUTELY translates to slip on acceleration, maybe something you won't feel today but will get worse with miles...how many miles? I don't know.

Before I get flamed, I am NOT bashing or advocating , just sharing some knowledge. I know I sometimes come across a little brash, but its not my intent. There's a ton of people out there not only new to the spyder but new to the whole motorcycle thing too.
READ MY LIPS! The motorcycle oil DOES NOT contain Moly. You have been bashing this oil and telling us how you have researched so much. Why don't you call the RP site and talk to a technician. They would be foolish to contain Moly in motorcycle oil, as would any other motorcycle oil. If you want to use BRP oil, I have no problem with that. I am not bashing it. Quit bashing RP. Call them yourself and find out what they are using before you tell others they are using Moly. Have them explain to you what Synerlec is made of.
 

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Smokster- In my Spyders I use BRP oil , no questions on warranty coverages, and the overall cost considering the number of quarts used a year is minimal. In my Buell I run Mobil 1 synthetic v twin motorcycle oil. I am very happy with its performance and when my warranty is up in both Spyders they will get it too. I went the amsoil route about 6 years ago and swear I will never make that mistake again.

Spyderwoman and Dudley- As far as the SE5's downshifting smoother with the purple.... I cannot say this from first hand knowledge as I have not ridden one with Purple... however common sense says perhaps there is a correlation. The synerlec additive package in Purple contains Moly. The SE5 clutch system while seemingly very hightech still is just a clutch. What it doesn't have the ability to be human , it can't sense "grab" and it can't feel "drag" so its a pretty unsophisticated downshift. (Have you ever heard a rookie downshift a bike? CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK)....anyways, the moly in the synerlec additive package coats clutch plates, thats a fact. (Its long term damage to fiber clutch plates is debatable as it builds a film up on the plates) . The plates being slippery(er) should by all means cause a less abrupt "feel" when downshifting. It basically "covers-up" the computer just poking the gear shift down without care and alows alittle slip, thus the smoother feel. So I won't discount that. The long term affects on the clutching system? Unknown. And that same smooth "slip" you feel on downshifts ABSOLUTELY translates to slip on acceleration, maybe something you won't feel today but will get worse with miles...how many miles? I don't know.

Before I get flamed, I am NOT bashing or advocating , just sharing some knowledge. I know I sometimes come across a little brash, but its not my intent. There's a ton of people out there not only new to the spyder but new to the whole motorcycle thing too.
Unfortunately your knowledge on the RP product line is lacking because their MC oil doesn't have the Moly and is fine for wet clutches. Perhaps some research before talking about a product you're not educated on would be a good move prior to posting about it.
 

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Smokster- In my Spyders I use BRP oil , no questions on warranty coverages, and the overall cost considering the number of quarts used a year is minimal. In my Buell I run Mobil 1 synthetic v twin motorcycle oil. I am very happy with its performance and when my warranty is up in both Spyders they will get it too. I went the amsoil route about 6 years ago and swear I will never make that mistake again.

Spyderwoman and Dudley- As far as the SE5's downshifting smoother with the purple.... I cannot say this from first hand knowledge as I have not ridden one with Purple... however common sense says perhaps there is a correlation. The synerlec additive package in Purple contains Moly. The SE5 clutch system while seemingly very hightech still is just a clutch. What it doesn't have the ability to be human , it can't sense "grab" and it can't feel "drag" so its a pretty unsophisticated downshift. (Have you ever heard a rookie downshift a bike? CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK)....anyways, the moly in the synerlec additive package coats clutch plates, thats a fact. (Its long term damage to fiber clutch plates is debatable as it builds a film up on the plates) . The plates being slippery(er) should by all means cause a less abrupt "feel" when downshifting. It basically "covers-up" the computer just poking the gear shift down without care and alows alittle slip, thus the smoother feel. So I won't discount that. The long term affects on the clutching system? Unknown. And that same smooth "slip" you feel on downshifts ABSOLUTELY translates to slip on acceleration, maybe something you won't feel today but will get worse with miles...how many miles? I don't know.

Before I get flamed, I am NOT bashing or advocating , just sharing some knowledge. I know I sometimes come across a little brash, but its not my intent. There's a ton of people out there not only new to the spyder but new to the whole motorcycle thing too.
will you switch with the BRP blend as well?
 

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will you switch with the BRP blend as well?
If you mean will I switch from the BRP synthetic blend to mobil 1 , yes I will , of course BRP could come out with a full synthetic by then... but doubtful. I won't use the V twin formula in the spyder though , that is specifically for air cooled V twins like I have in the Buell, I will use the 10w40 mobil 1 motorcycle oil for the Spyder.

With regards to my comments on moly additive packages in Royal Purple and other oils, Mobil also notes the same thing about why you should not have additives....

Quoting-It's a little hard to generalize about the difference between Mobil 1 passenger-car motor oils and Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. That's because not all viscosities of Mobil 1 passenger-car oils have the same levels of zinc and phosphorus, and there are even greater differences among the three Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. In general, Mobil 1 motorcycle oils have:
Additive packages balanced differently for motorcycle engine and transmission operation. For passenger vehicles, fuel economy and emission system protection are higher priorities. These require low phosphorus systems and the use of friction modifiers. Motorcycle oils do not require friction modifiers for fuel economy and for better clutch friction, less or no friction modifier is optimum. oils allow the use of higher levels of antiwear additives such as ZDDP (phosphorous).
(Updated December 2007)

This is what I will use in the Spyder-

"Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is designed for sport bikes. Most of these bikes have multi-cylinder/multi-valve engines and use a common sump, which means the engine oil lubricates the engine, transmission and wet clutch. So unlike Mobil 1 for cars, Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 has no friction modifiers, which could lead to clutch slippage.

The motorcycle oil also has more phosphorus/zinc for enhanced wear protection at high engine speeds and high loads.

In addition, Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 has a high performance dispersant/detergent technology for better high-temperature performance and engine cleanliness. Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is also offered in a different viscosity grade than Mobil 1 for passenger cars. (Updated December 2007)"

This is in the Buell... (it's 20w-50)

"Mobil 1 V-Twin oil is designed for air-cooled, large-displacement bikes. Because of their design, these engines can generate very high localized oil temperatures and high overall bulk-oil temperatures.

As you know, a typical air-cooled V-twin's rear cylinder gets a lot hotter than the front cylinder - it's a matter of airflow. When it's hot out and you're stuck in traffic, the oil temperature in your bike climbs rapidly. Above about 250°F, conventional motor oil is going to break down. Mobil 1 V-Twin synthetic oil is good to above 300°F."

Not a mobil 1 freak , just like a pure synthetic with no friction/moly additives. It fits the bill for me.
 

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Unfortunately your knowledge on the RP product line is lacking because their MC oil doesn't have the Moly and is fine for wet clutches. Perhaps some research before talking about a product you're not educated on would be a good move prior to posting about it.
Sorry, their MC oil does use the synerlec additive pac and yep it contains moly.... Synerlec package contains the unique oil-soluble molybdenum additive..................next.

besides I'm not bashing it , I just won't use oil with an additive. What you do is your business.
 

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Dudley
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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Well, what started out as a simple review on how the RP Max Cycle oil has helped our Spyder has really turned to a head bashing of "I know better" than you. I include myself also. When I talked to the RP technician about the oil for motorcycles, one of the things he said, without my even asking, was that it did not contain any Moly. Now, why would he have a reason to lie? The oil is compatible with wet clutches...meaning it will not damage wet clutches. That was all the proof I needed. You're sold on Mobil 1 and you claim it's "pure synthetic". And I can't blame you for standing so strongly for it. But here again, I haven't tried to tell you that RP is better than Mobil 1. If I lived closer to you I would gladly drive over and ask you to ride our Spyder so you could feel the difference. My review was just that, a review. I have said this before. I am not a chemist, nor am I a mechanic. I am an experienced motorcycle rider with over 300,000 miles and 40+ years. I think I qualify to be able to tell the difference in performance in the oil that I use, if there is a difference. "Nuff" said on this matter. If those that have read my review want to try the RP, that's their decision, as it should be. If some think I am off-base about the oil, that's their decision also. I just put in on here for all to read. If anyone wants to message be, they are more than welcome.
 

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Sorry, their MC oil does use the synerlec additive pac and yep it contains moly.... Synerlec package contains the unique oil-soluble molybdenum additive..................next.

besides I'm not bashing it , I just won't use oil with an additive. What you do is your business.
Well, I guess you know more about Royal Purple oils than the technicians that they employ, but then again - why should they know anything about the product they sell and support.

Perhaps you should give them a call yourself so that you can educate them about their products.
 

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Well, what started out as a simple review on how the RP Max Cycle oil has helped our Spyder has really turned to a head bashing of "I know better" than you. I include myself also. When I talked to the RP technician about the oil for motorcycles, one of the things he said, without my even asking, was that it did not contain any Moly. Now, why would he have a reason to lie? The oil is compatible with wet clutches...meaning it will not damage wet clutches. That was all the proof I needed. You're sold on Mobil 1 and you claim it's "pure synthetic". And I can't blame you for standing so strongly for it. But here again, I haven't tried to tell you that RP is better than Mobil 1. If I lived closer to you I would gladly drive over and ask you to ride our Spyder so you could feel the difference. My review was just that, a review. I have said this before. I am not a chemist, nor am I a mechanic. I am an experienced motorcycle rider with over 300,000 miles and 40+ years. I think I qualify to be able to tell the difference in performance in the oil that I use, if there is a difference. "Nuff" said on this matter. If those that have read my review want to try the RP, that's their decision, as it should be. If some think I am off-base about the oil, that's their decision also. I just put in on here for all to read. If anyone wants to message be, they are more than welcome.
Dudley-

I do not claim to know better , in fact if you read my posts , I AGREED that the difference you feel is reasonable based upon the additives in Royal Purple and what they do to the clutch versus a conventional synthetic. I am not doubting that! I agree NUFF said and wasn't intent on bashing any oil, just pointing out some facts about the difference in the oils and why you are getting the difference in downshifting performance. If RP works wonders for you thats GREAT! I also posted that it wasn't my intent to bash. Its just reasonable to understand that you get the difference because the clutch plates are slipping more now.
I've had too many bike motors apart to even categorize or count , replaced way too many clutches and dealt with every brand of oil imaginable and have seen the results. Thats just experience , not "I know more than you".
Lastly I like Mobil 1 and I like the BRP oil, both of which don't have the additives. I could care less if you use them or not , I profit not a cent off of oil sales!


So I agree nuff said. My point was merely to educate on the differences in the oils.
 

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Well, I guess you know more about Royal Purple oils than the technicians that they employ, but then again - why should they know anything about the product they sell and support.

Perhaps you should give them a call yourself so that you can educate them about their products.
I never flamed you but since you decided to get personal and let me have it , just kindly explain to the forum why the company listed in the following article regarding blatant false advertising from last week is to be believed with anything?

http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article0013...fmW6PM,b1v6g3vS

The most blatant and false claims was that of being ILSAC certified, meaning the oil meets the current fuel economy requirements needed by the OEMs. Their CAFE numbers rely on this performance standard and the oil marketers pay for the privilege to have the "starburst" symbol on the bottle. To claim this without data and without paying for the license is inexcusable.

The rest of the claims demonstrate why consumers can't agree on a particular product, because it depends on whether you trust the advertising. Do you? I don't.
I have no idea why you need to get personal.
 

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Widow, you might also want to read this article :

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/moly.html

Seems MOLY is actually a GOOD thing now since they have figured out how to keep it in suspension.

So the MOLY concern is moot.

The concern of it not being a 'true synthetic' is silly - considering that the new BRP Spyder oil is a BLEND. Another moot point.

Of all the research I've done in the past few days - all of the negative things online about Royal Purple have ONE source - yup - AMSOIL. Seems Amsoil goes out of their way to bash RP - and people believe everything they read online.

There were even rumors started that Cummins banned the use of RP - which is a complete lie.

One thing I didn't find is many (if any) end users that didn't like RP.

I'll post my findings when I change my oil as my SM5 Spyder doesn't seem to be shifting as smooth since the last oil change done by the dealer. Just like Dudley, I know the feel of my bike from head to toe and can tell when something just isn't right, or when something makes a noticable difference.
 

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I never flamed you but since you decided to get personal and let me have it , just kindly explain to the forum why the company listed in the following article regarding blatant false advertising from last week is to be believed with anything?

http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article0013...fmW6PM,b1v6g3vS

The most blatant and false claims was that of being ILSAC certified, meaning the oil meets the current fuel economy requirements needed by the OEMs. Their CAFE numbers rely on this performance standard and the oil marketers pay for the privilege to have the "starburst" symbol on the bottle. To claim this without data and without paying for the license is inexcusable.

The rest of the claims demonstrate why consumers can't agree on a particular product, because it depends on whether you trust the advertising. Do you? I don't.
I have no idea why you need to get personal.
I didn't think this really was personal - until you really jumped on Dudley. You made it seem that you are the expert and he's just being conned.

No offense intended, and this has gotten way overblown.

I don't believe any of the ads by Amsoil either. To make a big deal out of what the company claims in various ads is just silly. Every company claims their product is the best of the best - so they are all guilty.

Amsoil is obviously scared of Royal Purple, hence why they are spending so much time and money in bashing a competitor, rather than just selling their own product based on its own merits.

Moving on - hopefully with a better lubed Spyder----


Peace!
 

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Dudley
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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
anybody want to bitch about valvoline motorcycle oil ? I'm thinking about using it.
If that's the one you feel will serve you best, by all means, go for it. Seriously though, it's whatever one feels comfortable with. It all comes down to enjoying your Spyder.
 

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I didn't think this really was personal - until you really jumped on Dudley. You made it seem that you are the expert and he's just being conned.

No offense intended, and this has gotten way overblown.

I don't believe any of the ads by Amsoil either. To make a big deal out of what the company claims in various ads is just silly. Every company claims their product is the best of the best - so they are all guilty.

Amsoil is obviously scared of Royal Purple, hence why they are spending so much time and money in bashing a competitor, rather than just selling their own product based on its own merits.

Moving on - hopefully with a better lubed Spyder----


Peace!
1) I can't agree more about Amsoil being scared of Royal Purple . If I had 3 bottles of oil in the garage , RP , Amsoil and BRP I'd use the BRP first, The RP second , and if they were gone , I'd park the spyder and use the Amsoil to start my campfire when the wood was wet.
2) The moly thing (suspension wise) is about 15 years old , the old stuff used to actually settle out and leave a paste in the bottom of the bottle even before you used it!! YUCK! thats not what I was speaking of but thats water under the bridge.
3) It's not just amsoil taking shots at RP tho... BP is the one that lodged the deceptive advertising claims against them this year and BP was proven correct.
4) We use Blackstone labs for our oil analysis , I will pop by our local Napa and get a quart of Royal Purple Motorcycle oil and send it off to the lab and report back. I've seen the moly show up in their mc oil before but I don't want to be accused of bashing. I'll post the full report when it comes back.

I'm from the old school that if your advertising budget is bigger than your R & D budget, somethings fishy....

Peace.

(Full Moon with an Orange)
 

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Dudley
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I never flamed you but since you decided to get personal and let me have it , just kindly explain to the forum why the company listed in the following article regarding blatant false advertising from last week is to be believed with anything?

http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article0013...fmW6PM,b1v6g3vS

The most blatant and false claims was that of being ILSAC certified, meaning the oil meets the current fuel economy requirements needed by the OEMs. Their CAFE numbers rely on this performance standard and the oil marketers pay for the privilege to have the "starburst" symbol on the bottle. To claim this without data and without paying for the license is inexcusable.

The rest of the claims demonstrate why consumers can't agree on a particular product, because it depends on whether you trust the advertising. Do you? I don't.
I have no idea why you need to get personal.
I read the report and I thank you for presenting it here. It all goes back to my block of ice. BP, another oil company, felt challenged. That's ok. In that light, if I said "This rose is beautiful" in a public observation, then another rose company could challenge my statement, because it was really just "pretty" and I should have called it "pretty". No significant difference, I just can't call it "beautiful". It seems to all boil down to power and control by the big boys. And in your reference to the amount of engines you have torn apart and clutches you have replaced, there is a relative factor. Some people can ruin a clutch in a matter of days by the way they ride and shift with total disregard for the bike and regardless of the oil. Some have never had clutch problems. It can't just be the oil. I drove thousands of miles with just plain "oil" in my bikes, never having clutch problems, and that goes back to 1966, when Quaker State was "the" oil. And finding a misrepresentation in fuel economy requirements, is mute. The way some people drive, the oil will not help them save a drop of gas. So, that advertisement can be removed without effecting the oil. When all is said and done, it's not he RP oil, it's just how it was presented to the public. Ryde Safe, my Spyder Brother.
 

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I read the report and I thank you for presenting it here. It all goes back to my block of ice. BP, another oil company, felt challenged. That's ok. In that light, if I said "This rose is beautiful" in a public observation, then another rose company could challenge my statement, because it was really just "pretty" and I should have called it "pretty". No significant difference, I just can't call it "beautiful". It seems to all boil down to power and control by the big boys. And in your reference to the amount of engines you have torn apart and clutches you have replaced, there is a relative factor. Some people can ruin a clutch in a matter of days by the way they ride and shift with total disregard for the bike. Some have never had clutch problems. It can't just be the oil. I drove thousands of miles with just plain "oil" in my bikes, never having clutch problems, and that goes back to 1966, when Quaker State was "the" oil. And finding a misrepresentation in fuel economy requirements, is mute. The way some people drive, the oil will not help them save a drop of gas. So, that advertisement can be removed without effecting the oil. When all is said and done, it's not he RP oil, it's just how it was presented to the public. Ryde Safe, my Spyder Brother.
And YOU enjoy your smoother shifting, brother!
 

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Amsoil scared of RP LOL I don't think Amsoil is scared of any oil company. But as this thread goes to each his own. If you want to start a fire with your bottle of Amsoil, go right ahead, I think your a dumb a$$ and don't know sh&%e about oil, but as I said to each his own.
Don't waste your $$$ on a Blackstone labs kit or RP to prove a point. Read Bobistheoilguy forums. It has plenty of info and test results of all oil brands including Ams and RP. I've been reading BITOG forums for years and have learned much. I would rather lose my dogs pooper scooper then paint it orange so I could find it. Get my point
To each his own. Oh and by the by, I am not an Amsoil dealer, never have been, never will.
 

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Amsoil scared of RP LOL I don't think Amsoil is scared of any oil company. But as this thread goes to each his own. If you want to start a fire with your bottle of Amsoil, go right ahead, I think your a dumb a$$ and don't know sh&%e about oil, but as I said to each his own.
Don't waste your $$$ on a Blackstone labs kit or RP to prove a point. Read Bobistheoilguy forums. It has plenty of info and test results of all oil brands including Ams and RP. I've been reading BITOG forums for years and have learned much. I would rather lose my dogs pooper scooper then paint it orange so I could find it. Get my point
To each his own. Oh and by the by, I am not an Amsoil dealer, never have been, never will.
I will not write bad words on the internet
I will not write bad words on the internet
I will not write bad words on the internet
I will not write bad words on the internet
I will not write bad words on the internet
I will not write bad words on the internet
I will not write bad words on the internet
I will not write bad words on the internet
I will not write bad words on the internet
I will not write bad words on the internet
I will not write bad words on the internet
I will not write bad words on the internet
I will not write bad words on the internet
I will not write bad words on the internet
I will not write bad words on the internet
I will not write bad words on the internet
I will not write bad words on the internet
 

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Amsoil scared of RP LOL I don't think Amsoil is scared of any oil company. But as this thread goes to each his own. If you want to start a fire with your bottle of Amsoil, go right ahead, I think your a dumb a$$ and don't know sh&%e about oil, but as I said to each his own.
Gang, we can have spirited debates all day long...but let's not lower ourselves to name calling and personal attacks.
 
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