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I've always done the short burst method on any thing.

I never take off hard from a dead stop. but once I am in second and cruising, I will not hesitate to give a quick burst and a hard shift.
I wouldn't go and blow every gear to 9500. but I don't believe in Soft-Brake-In
I would go riding it to 500 miles in one shot either.
I did 150 in one ride with my girl on the back.

besides I got the full warranty, if the sh&% brakes, I will take it back in.
I do plan on getting a new motor and tranny out of my warranty with in couple years. so I don't care...
 
Marc:

Thanks for the offer. First I need to get a call from Buck's that the machine is ready for me. I don't have much confidence that will be anytime soon. Although, Jan told me there are a number of guys who do NOT to take delivery in mid-winter, and that might slide me up sooner. Who knows!

Stuart
About Breakin, I for one will take the long way home and just vary the speeds, no constant speeds at all. I might even stop for a coffee or two. I'm sure I''ll get some attention at the coffee shops to give the engine time to cool down. I've broken in many engines easy and never had a problem. The only one that did mention something different was my Benz and it said not to gear down. That I did and it runs great and no problems with oil consumption of power. Bottom line is, what ever makes you happy!!! Can't wait till " Spring"
 
Gang,

Break-in has always been a controversial topic. Personally, I believe the keep-it-slow method is more for manufacturer liability than for breaking in the engine. For the most part, every one of these engines has run on a dyno to full RPM before they leave the factory. If they can do it there why can't the owner do it on the road? On the other hand, if you tell your customer to keep the RPMs down during break-in they have a chance to get to the know the machine at a reduced performance level before blasting thru the gears at full performance.


FYI, the most important goal of break-in is to allow the rings mounted in the grooves around the top circumference of the pistons to wear the inside of the cylinder (and themselves) to make a good seal. The inside of the cylinders on new engines are honed in a cross-hatch pattern to promote the process. As the rings move up and down inside the cylinder with the piston the "peaks" on the cross-hatching break off (in microscopic pieces). Theoretically, as the cylinder walls wear away they begin to exactly match the outside of the ring. The better these two pieces of metal match up, the better seal you get. A better seal improves cylinder compression, prevents blow by and reduces oil consumption.


A bad ring-to-cylinder seal allows the fuel/air mixture in the cylinder to "leak" out around the rings during the compression stroke as the piston moves toward the top of the cylinder following the intake stroke. When the mixture leaks out, there is less to burn during combustion, thus less power.

A bad seal also promotes blow-by. This occurs when hot gases flow around the piston during the combustion event adding caustic combustion products to your oil. Imagine pumping acid around the inside of your engine. That's what the oil pump is doing when it pumps acidic oil around your engine!

Finally, a bad seal increases oil consumption. The rings are supposed to "scrape" oil (sprayed on the bottom of the piston and the cylinder wall below the piston) off the cylinder wall as they move downward with the piston. A poor ring-to-cylinder seal allows more oil to remain on the cylinder wall which eventually burns off during combustion. This is what happens with engines that are said to "use" oil.

To best promote break-in and a good ring-to-cylinder seal you must force the rings against the inside of the cylinder with as much pressure as possible WITHOUT OVERHEATING THE CYLINDER! This is critical... if the cylinder overheats you could generate a "glaze" in the cross-hatching which will NOT wear away. That means your engine will NOT break-in; you will always suffer low compression, excess blow-by and excess oil consumption. Hence, BRP's admonition to not sit in traffic with the cooling fan running during break-in -- KEEP THE THING MOVING!


The rings are shaped such that the combustion event (which increases pressure inside the cylinder) pushes against the the inside of the ring forcing it outward against the cylinder wall. So it stands to reason whatever you can do to put more pressure on the INSIDE of the ring will improve the break-in process (keeping in mind the overheating issue). Riding the thing easy WILL NOT ACCOMPLISH THE TASK! You have to use frequent, hard acceleration runs to get the in-cylinder pressure high enough to do the job. At the same time, you MUST KEEP MOVING to prevent overheating.


One final warning: don't open the throttle too much at low RPM -- called "lugging" the engine. Lugging promotes overheating and puts a great deal of pressure on bearings that haven't broken in yet either.

Instead, briefly open the throttle at the mid-range RPMs, say from 4,000 to 7,000 on a regular basis. The farther into the break-in period the higher you can allow the revs to go -- right up to redline.

Following this regimen your engine will be largely broken in by 100 miles. At that point it's a good idea to change the oil and get rid of all those little pieces you broke off the inside of the cylinder, as well as the stuff that got by the rings (remember blow-by?) before they broke in.

Follow the links to the Motoman site posted earlier for a great description of a good, viable break-in procedure. It accounts for both increasing the in-cylinder pressure while preventing overheating.

Regards,

Mark Sletten
 
i've always done the fast break in method.
you know 2,3,4 1500 blast up to 9000 let the motor slow it self down
never over brake and never let the bike get too hot, KEEP IT MOVING
never push first or do solid take offs in first.
never had a problem doing it this way with cars or bikes or hell, anything with a new motor.
 
I have always done the factory recommended break in and in all my years of driving I have never had an "oil burner". Each to his own...but remember with todays ECU computer controlled mills, the entire break-in history can be recalled. If you have an engine problem and BRP deems that the manual wasn't followed they can void your warranty on the spot !!

Just a word of caution !

Richard
 
I have always done the factory recommended break in and in all my years of driving I have never had an "oil burner". Each to his own...but remember with todays ECU computer controlled mills, the entire break-in history can be recalled. If you have an engine problem and BRP deems that the manual wasn't followed they can void your warranty on the spot !!

Just a word of caution !

Richard
i think you are giving these machines a little too much credit - there is no "history" that can be recalled (other than a fault code).
 
i think you are giving these machines a little too much credit - there is no "history" that can be recalled (other than a fault code).
I'd bet that the ECU is very similiar to the one used in the BRP Sea-doos. If it is, the dealer can get a readout of the rpms, time frame etc when they hook it up to the BUDDS system. Computers can and will spill the beans and not have a gulity conscience when they do it.

Richard
 
Ok, after all this, I decided to call people and raise some hell.
I have taken my bike well over 6k
and that is according to the #*&% BRP book.
it contridicts it self heavy.
"Don't let the fan run for prolonged periods" what is prolonged to one is short to another.
"don't go over 6k rpms, but go faster tolet the bike cool down?" *%@
so I called BRP and told them that I have had the bike to 9k in 4th and that cooled it off fast and hard.
and that on the highway riding 100 miles at 75 (5900) makes the fan stay on for prolonged periods.
so I told him the way I drive and what RPM I drive at and so on he made a note of it and gave me a reference number to give to the dealers so they won't be able to void my warranty.

I suggest you guys call BRP and tell them this. this way they will at least make a note of it and the dealer won't be able to give you hassle if they are able to see a HISTORY.

Than chuck at Bert's told me not to worry and if I ride over 6000, nothing will happen. he said if the fan comes on for 2 hours, do what I have to do to make it go off, if that is riding over 85mph to make the wind do it's job, so be it.

than he aid these things are too new to even know for them, so voiding warranty is out of the question at this point. Unless you run it's in to a 4 foot deep mud puddle, than you on your own. lol
 
I'd bet that the ECU is very similiar to the one used in the BRP Sea-doos. If it is, the dealer can get a readout of the rpms, time frame etc when they hook it up to the BUDDS system. Computers can and will spill the beans and not have a gulity conscience when they do it.

Richard
i don't know what is used in the sea-doos but the system on the spyder is a siemens-vdo. this is the same system used by aprilia since 2004 so i'm only basing this info on my past four years of experience (and i have the aprilia factory "axone" test equipment). on those bikes, there is no recording of anything other than fault codes.

but please don't let me influence anyone on how to break-in their bike. i have broken-in dozens of these engines (in aprilias) on the dyno and they are some of the strongest aprilias out there, but i am willing to accept the risks if anything were to go wrong.
 
i don't know what is used in the sea-doos but the system on the spyder is a siemens-vdo. this is the same system used by aprilia since 2004 so i'm only basing this info on my past four years of experience (and i have the aprilia factory "axone" test equipment). on those bikes, there is no recording of anything other than fault codes.

but please don't let me influence anyone on how to break-in their bike. i have broken-in dozens of these engines (in aprilias) on the dyno and they are some of the strongest aprilias out there, but i am willing to accept the risks if anything were to go wrong.
Ken

Is the diagnostic software on the Spyder the same as the software used on similar Aprilias ? I have a friend who services the Aprilias and if it was possible , Id much prefer him to be working on my Spyder.
Thanks for any info you might have.
 
i don't know what is used in the sea-doos but the system on the spyder is a siemens-vdo. this is the same system used by aprilia since 2004 so i'm only basing this info on my past four years of experience (and i have the aprilia factory "axone" test equipment). on those bikes, there is no recording of anything other than fault codes.

but please don't let me influence anyone on how to break-in their bike. i have broken-in dozens of these engines (in aprilias) on the dyno and they are some of the strongest aprilias out there, but i am willing to accept the risks if anything were to go wrong.
I haven't got my Spyder yet but am interested in what ProviderEX says about the fan running for prolong periods. My question, did BRP put to small a Rad on the Spyder? Is it the same size as on the Aprilla? If it is then it is undersized. The Spyder is heavy and I would think the engine is pushing a lot on those three wheels and with low tire pressure the bike doesn't roll as easy as a two wheeler. Anyone know anything about antifreeze capacity in the Aprilla and that of the Spyder. Think that would be interesting reading !!!
 
... did BRP put to small a Rad on the Spyder? Is it the same size as on the Aprilla? If it is then it is undersized. The Spyder is heavy and I would think the engine is pushing a lot on those three wheels and with low tire pressure the bike doesn't roll as easy as a two wheeler. Anyone know anything about antifreeze capacity in the Aprilla and that of the Spyder. Think that would be interesting reading !!!
the radiator on the spyder is small but thick. the aprilias tend to run hot and to be on the safe side, we are working on adapting a new fan controller to the spyder.
 
i wish - it would make my life much easier. i just had to buy brand new equipment (another $2500) that will work with the spyder (the spyder update is due in january/february).
the radiator on the spyder is small but thick. the aprilias tend to run hot and to be on the safe side, we are working on adapting a new fan controller to the spyder.
BRP must have taken a different route with the Spyder which really surprises me. On all of their PWC the BUDDS system is only made available to authorized dealers on a loan basis...the dealer can not own the equipment. This requires owners to go to BRP dealers for work as they are the only ones who can read the ECU and do diagnostic tests.

Richard
 
BRP must have taken a different route with the Spyder which really surprises me. On all of their PWC the BUDDS system is only made available to authorized dealers on a loan basis...the dealer can not own the equipment. This requires owners to go to BRP dealers for work as they are the only ones who can read the ECU and do diagnostic tests.
Richard
the unit we use is made by texa, a european company that makes the factory diagnostic equipment for most major manufacturers. we use it for the aprilias, ducati, bimota, benelli, bmw, mv agusta and soon can-am.
 
but please don't let me influence anyone on how to break-in their bike. i have broken-in dozens of these engines (in aprilias) on the dyno and they are some of the strongest aprilias out there, but i am willing to accept the risks if anything were to go wrong.
I looked, but I couldn't find your personal recommendation on break-in. Can you share?

Thanks,

Mark
 
I looked, but I couldn't find your personal recommendation on break-in. Can you share?

Thanks,

Mark
on the spyder it is a little different since we can't fit it on the dyno. but basically, we will put 50-100 miles on the bike using several short trips (we want to fully heat cycle the engine several times). now do an oil & filter change (non-synthetic oil). next we then will load it on the dyno, bring all fluids up to temp and then make three pulls at 50% throttle to ~6k rpm (letting the drum on the dyno pull the motor back down to idle with throttle closed). we then let the bike cool down. next, warm the bike up again and make three pulls at 75% throttle to ~8k rpm (again, letting the dyno pull the engine back down). let the bike cool down again. last stage is to warm the bike up, make three full throttle pulls to redline (again, let the dyno pull the engine down). let the bike cool down and do another oil & filter change (synthetic). now you are fully broken in.
 
Well i have 651 miles on and hope it is broke in ok. i did the run let it cool, just not on a dyno. i think it did run warmer during break in ans was thankful for temps in the 30's for that.
On the the HISTORY thing. The should me my exact history RPMS, temps. time at each when i went in to get the broken belt fixed. Really cool. they told me to try and run it a little harder as i was only at higher RPMs 10% of the time up to the 90 miles i had on the Spyder. You could see right where the belt broke. RPMs spiked just below redline.
 
...On the the HISTORY thing. The should me my exact history RPMS, temps. time at each when i went in to get the broken belt fixed. Really cool. they told me to try and run it a little harder as i was only at higher RPMs 10% of the time up to the 90 miles i had on the Spyder. You could see right where the belt broke. RPMs spiked just below redline.
wow, this is great that they have this ability built into these bikes. now i just need to figure out how to access this information.
 
wow, this is great that they have this ability built into these bikes. now i just need to figure out how to access this information.
They have to have some after market software. It is just hooked up to a lap top. They told be they can do that with any fuel injected motor. Boat motors, sea doos, sleds. and ATVs it may well be just a BRP thing as they are a dealer and the boat motors are Evinrudes owned by BRP.
 
Exactly like I thought. All BRP products use the BUDDS system which shows a complete history. I'm a frequent poster on some of the performance PWC websites and know of no one outside the factory/dealer network who has access to the BUDDS system. The Spyder uses the same basic Rotax engine as the Aprilla motorcycles but because it is a BRP product the test equipment differs.

These days the computers know your every move !!

Richard
 
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