[shortcut]

Hi, im newbee in this forum, please go easy on me
Can someone tell me how to disable tcs on a spyder? im looking for a solution to get antispin and tracktion control off. Rest off VSS package im not touching.

I just want the wheel to spin more, and get it out in curves. Im not interesting in hearing how dangerous it it.

I'm sorry for misspellings, but i'm not US citizen.

Runar

This post has been edited by shortcut: 07 March 2009 - 03:20 PM

[max continuous]

Not sure if this is what you are after. I did a search on the "other" forum under disable vss and there seems to be quite a lot there.
Max (copied and pasted)


Vehicles that have VSS and or ABS all use the same basic operating design parameters. Almost all these systems use magnetic pick ups on the wheels to count the speed of each wheels revolutions or RPMs.

Depending on the desired parameters the design engineer wanted for this system, the "moment threshold" is programmed into the VSS/ABS computer.

Basicly that means once one or more of the wheels has an "X" greater RPM difference than the other wheels then the VSS/ABS system kicks in trying to always keep all the wheels turning at relatively the same rate.

So, if you are braking and one or more wheel starts turning significantly slower than the others (locking up) it then uses the ABS controller to modulate the braking force to that wheel until it is once again turning at the same RPMs as the other wheels. This of course is done at almost light speed as the computer monitors and modulates the brakes as needed to keep all the wheels within the design parameters for that system.

Now, the traction control portion of the VSS operates almost the same exact way but in reverse. It sees if one of the wheels is spinning too fast and than uses both the ABS control unit to try to slow it down and even can cut out engine power if needed to further keep all the wheels spinning at the same RPMs.

How the computer knows if it should be in the ABS mode or VSS mode is by the switch on the brake pedal that then tells the computer you are trying to brake and to switch from VSS to ABS mode.

Other items in the VSS mode such as yaw sensor and such also come into play with VSS but that is another whole topic.

The reason I'm telling you how this all works is recently some companies are acting like they have some "Magic" way they can run a Spyder on a Dyno without the VSS kicking in.

I'm here to say there is "NO MAGIC" on how this works and even a homeowner could unhook the sensors to be able to do a Dyno run themselves. So, be careful when you "buy your snake oil" from some people as there is nothing special they are doing to do this other than pulling the sensors out and zip tying them to the frame.

Our testing has show that on SM5s to bypass the VSS for a Dyno run all you have to do is quite easily pull the 4 sensors out of their holders by removing the small 10mm headed bolt on each one and zip tie them to the frame out of the way.

With the sensors each not "seeing" any RPMs the computer does not know that the rear wheel is turning faster than the front as all 4 sensors read zero RPMs all the time. It then thinks everything is "OK" as it thinks all the wheels are staying within the normal operating parameters.

This is not conjecture here as we have not only been able to test this out for running the bike stationary like on a Dyno, but have also been able to due some real killer multi gear burnouts with no VSS codes, limp modes or other "nanny" problems. Our testing has also shown no interference by the VSS system all the way up to our top test speed of 80 mph or 6000 RPMs in 5th.

Please note: This testing was done by professionals under controlled conditions and should not be tried by anyone at home. I would never recommend any of you try running your Spyder without the VSS/ABS functioning as that could cause harm. personal injury or possible death to both you and or your Spyder.

Enough for the CYA.

This testing showed the SM5 Spyder will now no longer have any VSS interference when operated like this. Nor will it have VSS codes or go into limp mode whatsoever. However it also has shown that the speedometer does not function in this configuration as the speedometer receives it's signal from the rear wheel sensors.

The reason I have said SM5 over and over again here is that this will not work on an SE5. Again our testing has shown that because the SE5 uses vehicle speed inputs to control the downshifting of the Spyder, that without the speed signal coming into the computer the Spyder will not shift out of first gear.

Sorry SE5 guys.

Also, some other people have asked what the 4th sensor on the rear wheel is for as the Spyder only has 3 wheels? The reason is the BRP has taken an off the shelf 4 wheel VSS system made by Bosch and adapted it to the Spyder, (why reinvent the wheel) So all they did is take both the rear wheel sensors that would normally go to different wheels on a car and mount both of them on the rear wheel of the Spyder. This works well and helps keep the overall cost of the Spyder down by using off the shelf products.

I hope this has helped all of you have a bit better understanding on how your VSS/ABS system on your Spyder works and that there is "NO MAGIC" in any of this.

So, next time somebody acts like only they have the "secret" on how to run a Spyder on a Dyno without VSS problems, you can all just shake your head and smile.

[shortcut]

darn
Where is the funpart in the riding. I would like to add som nice burnout`s and slides.
Since antispin dont kick in before 50 km/t (30 mph) there must be some settings in boschmodule that tells it to engage above this.
I think brp has been to tough when they made value for vss system.
I hope they will come out with some new program so we can chose other values/options.
In mean time, lets zip tie them to the frame

P.s. Than u for answering me

Runar

[tomwom]

shortcut, on Mar 7 2009, 05:01 PM, said:

darn
Where is the funpart in the riding. I would like to add som nice burnout`s and slides.
Since antispin dont kick in before 50 km/t (30 mph) there must be some settings in boschmodule that tells it to engage above this.
I think brp has been to tough when they made value for vss system.
I hope they will come out with some new program so we can chose other values/options.
In mean time, lets zip tie them to the frame

P.s. Than u for answering me

Runar

? Millions of dollars ,Years of research and you waunt to disable the xxxx thing. Why, I'm not sure on that one? O-Well you bought it .Do as you please. Just don't gripe about it when you get hurt. Best of luck.

[Donzo]

I wish I had a switch for the VSS. That way you could "play" if you wanted to and leave the VSS on for normal or spirited driving. I like having the VSS - it does not kick in that much when I am driving - when it does.....I'm glad it did! Sometimes you go into a turn with velocity and the turn is sharper than you expected - having the front inside tire "pulse break" just alittle to help keep you on the proper path is AOK with me.

I always did have a thing for nannies

[SpyderGuy]

Sorry to sound old and conversative, but the VSS is there for a reason. It might be fun to do a burnout (although bad for the tires and bike) but it sure wouldn't be fun to crash. The VSS, ABS and Traction Control systems are designed to work in concert to provide a "safe" ride. Even then you can still do stupid and/or encounter the unexpected and crash.

I have lead Spyder Demo rides and I was talking to someone from BRP about the demo Spyders. Funny thing, the demo Spyders were eating brake pads and tires like no tomorrow and they were trying to figure out why. It appears that people figured out that if you hammer on the brakes and crank the accelerator rapidly you can confuse the VSS/ABS/TC Systems and cause the Spyder to do a burnout and/or get it to slide out. Bad for the unit and certainly not recommended. That is why they typically have someone lead the on road demo rides. It is way too easy for people to try stupid things beyond their experience level, especially when it is someone else's machine.

I am sure BRP learned the that experience and I think that in production units they have taken great pains to make sure that these systems remain functional as much as possible under all conditions. I for one am glad they did. I took a turn a little hot and started to come up on two wheels an at 80MPH or so, this could have been disasterous. The nanny kicked in immediately and brough the raised tire back to the payment without incident. I hate to think of what would have happened had the VSS/ABC/TC systems not been there or turned off. My thoughts for what they're worth.

[shortcut]

I do not want to turn off VSS system, i just want to losen it up a little bit. Do some burnouts/slides. I`m not talking about turnig VSS completly off.
TCS is controlling antispin and sidemotion on rear wheel. Since it can do some smal burnouts it need to be some kinde of data in Bosch system, that allowing it to do so. Could this be adjusted if i had the propper tools?
Sensors on sideways motion (not tilting) could it be adjusted?

And please, don`t let this discussion turn into safety or not.

[max continuous]

You could try doing some research on Bosch.
If I'm not mistaken I think the nanny was partially adapted from the Audi A-6.
Max

[SpyderGuy]

If you read between the lines of my post, I gave you the answer. You can utilize a combination of the brake, clutch and throttle to "fool" the TCS and allow you to do a burnout. I have seen it done and I have had some first hand experience with it as well. So you have your answer, a little practice and you will get it to do exactly what you want. The rear tire is only $125 plus installation so having a little fun won't be all that expensive. Believe me you can get some serious smoke, the tire is much wider and has a greater contact patch than a typical motorcycle tire. Sorry, I had to deliver the safety lecture, but when people start telling you to fool with the sensors, etc. they are insane, that is asking for trouble. Trust me you can do what you want without any modifications, just a little trial and error. Have fun and be safe.

[sleepman]

shortcut, on Mar 8 2009, 05:38 PM, said:

I do not want to turn off VSS system, i just want to losen it up a little bit. Do some burnouts/slides. I`m not talking about turnig VSS completly off.
TCS is controlling antispin and sidemotion on rear wheel. Since it can do some smal burnouts it need to be some kinde of data in Bosch system, that allowing it to do so. Could this be adjusted if i had the propper tools?
Sensors on sideways motion (not tilting) could it be adjusted?

And please, don`t let this discussion turn into safety or not.

I've pulled all the sensors on mine and took it for a test ride. A few miles was enough to help me decide that I like it just fine with the safety stuff built in. Pulling the sensors is the only way to get rid of the traction control, but then you lose the VSS and the ABS plus your speedometer doesn't work. And you'd better disable the power steering because those same sensors control your DPS. Which means that sense the Spyder doesn't know how fast you're traveling it give you full assist power steering all the time.

As for Bosch, I have a friend who works for them. He tells me there's no way to bypass just one thing on the sensor system.

[tomwom]

sleepman, on Mar 8 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

I've pulled all the sensors on mine and took it for a test ride. A few miles was enough to help me decide that I like it just fine with the safety stuff built in. Pulling the sensors is the only way to get rid of the traction control, but then you lose the VSS and the ABS plus your speedometer doesn't work. And you'd better disable the power steering because those same sensors control your DPS. Which means that sense the Spyder doesn't know how fast you're traveling it give you full assist power steering all the time.

As for Bosch, I have a friend who works for them. He tells me there's no way to bypass just one thing on the sensor system.

Don't let us bully you around. Rember we are here for the Fun stuff too. Besides we rilly don't know you so there is no chance of being ask to be a paulbarrow at the funeral. Take it like A Man. See you down the road.

[Rodney]

Well the VSS,ABS and the ECU are differant controllers, I have been checking the wiring and I am head towards a CAM-BUSA. Just have to find the signal from the VSS that shuts down the fuel and find a way to turn it on and off. Will let you know what I come up as I am trying to add a Suzuki ECU to my bike but keep everythig working as well. Once that is figured then in goes the 1300.

[max continuous]

Geeeze! I gotta get the kid to set all the clocks for daylight savings!
Keep us posted.
Max

This post has been edited by max continuous: 09 March 2009 - 12:15 AM

[sleepman]

tomwom, on Mar 8 2009, 08:17 PM, said:

Don't let us bully you around. Rember we are here for the Fun stuff too. Besides we rilly don't know you so there is no chance of being ask to be a paulbarrow at the funeral. Take it like A Man. See you down the road.

Umm, okay whatever. If I could understand you I might be offended.

[evoluzione]

Rodney, on Mar 8 2009, 07:16 PM, said:

Well the VSS,ABS and the ECU are differant controllers, I have been checking the wiring and I am head towards a CAM-BUSA. Just have to find the signal from the VSS that shuts down the fuel and find a way to turn it on and off. Will let you know what I come up as I am trying to add a Suzuki ECU to my bike but keep everythig working as well. Once that is figured then in goes the 1300.

why a suzuki ecu? and what 1300? are you trying to fit a hayabusa engine in the spyder? though not cheap (or easy), we've converted our bike to a different seimens ecu that does away with the abs, tcs & dps (we also built a high output version of the rotax engine).

[Surfmeister2000]

evoluzione, on Mar 13 2009, 07:53 PM, said:

why a suzuki ecu? and what 1300? are you trying to fit a hayabusa engine in the spyder? though not cheap (or easy), we've converted our bike to a different seimens ecu that does away with the abs, tcs & dps (we also built a high output version of the rotax engine).

Do you have a solution to switch the nannies "on" and "off" ?

And i have one more question. Your O2 Modifier. Did you read out the Lambda to find out if the modification is ok.
Is the O2 modifier optimised for a stock engine. Because for a modified airbox i think you have to have a different mod than on a stock engine.
How i understand is that you just modify the signal to run the engine a bit richer.

[Spyderaddict]

Surfmeister2000, on Mar 13 2009, 03:24 PM, said:

Do you have a solution to switch the nannies "on" and "off" ?

And i have one more question. Your O2 Modifier. Did you read out the Lambda to find out if the modification is ok.
Is the O2 modifier optimised for a stock engine. Because for a modified airbox i think you have to have a different mod than on a stock engine.
How i understand is that you just modify the signal to run the engine a bit richer.

I don't believe you should use the O2 mod without some type of aftermarket pipe - like the / Hindle.

I have installed Kens 02 Mod, Race air system and Fuel Pressure mod - and it makes a BIG difference in throttle response.

As far as the nanny goes - My problem with it is that it cuts the engine at really slow speeds- pull out onto a gravel road or even wet and try to gun it and she sputters - really lame. I would like that part of the nanny to not activate until 20-30 mph.

[Rodney]

Yes the Hayabusa. The reason Suzuki is that the Hayabusa is very popular where I live and I find really good deals on wrecked ones where I can get at every part I need to do the conversion.
If I had a dealer the could repair my bike back to the way it was factory under warranty and BRP would step up and take care of the issues that I am having there would not be a need to change it. But as you can see from the post I have made here that aint going to happen. I have owned my bike for 11 months and it has been in the shop almost 4 of those. Thats not a good record.
The Rotax is a good motor but I do not feel that the dealer I used is capable of fixing it properly.
This dealer does not have a good repair record and if BRP would follow up on things they could save themselves a lot of problems if they would listen to the customer instead of blowing them off.

[Simon]

evoluzione, on Mar 13 2009, 02:53 PM, said:

we've converted our bike to a different seimens ecu that does away with the abs, tcs & dps

Is there any chance that might become available?

I have an SE5 and an SM5. I'm keeping the SM5 Stock for touring with the Girlfriend but I really want to set up the SE5 for more fun.

I'd like to keep the ABS, but wouldn't mind losing the rest of the nanny features.

I suspect it's going to be harder to mess with the SE5 than the SM5 though.

[JediAvlnchfan]

ACTUALLY, I have been able to do some really decent burnouts without turning any of the safety features off. It just takes a a light touch and feather of the throttle to kepp the rear wheel spinning without the safety kicking in. I have also managed to get some small sideways motion using the same feathering touch on the throttle. the sideways motion however was on a damp, not completely wet, road and once I started to get too far out there or try to give it too much throttle............well you all know what happens then.