[asmdjackal]

There are alot of separate threads on a variety of issues. I'd like to use this thread to collectively summarize those issues and discuss leveraged action to get the issues resolved. IE, individual haggling with dealers on brake squeals is not the answer to the solution - BRP needs to address this directly. If that means a class action suit must be filed - we should keep all options open.

Annoyances or non safety related issues will be "informal recalls". All items with safety related issues will be referred to as "formal" recall.

I'll take a stab at a summary, please add comments per topic:

Brake Squeal: Owners report persistent brake squeal even after the break in period as recommended by BRP. Several methods of deglazing have been tried, several methods of anti squeak pad compounds have been tried, heatshields around proportioning valves, etc.. This represents a potential safety issue as malfunctioning and or locking brakes can cause severe problems. Owners have replaced pads at their own cost, performed service, deglazing, etc at their own cost. BRP should formally address this issue and offer a bulletin to dealers and a formal recall to re-check each Spyder.

Uneven Tire wear: Owners report odd tread wear on the front tires, mostly the outer edges of the front tires. This doesn't appear to be related to tire pressure or any user configurable piece of the bike - suspect poor geometry or alignment from the dealer. BRP should formally address this issue and offer a bulletin to dealers and a informal recall to re-check each Spyder.

Muffler burn spots: Owners report burn spots that "grow" on the spyders exhaust. Though many users have replaced the factory muffler with aftermarket ones, this is not the solution to the problem. Owners have been replacing mufflers at their own cost to aftermarket units. BRP should formally address this issue and offer a bulletin to dealers and a informal recall to re-check each Spyder.

Low Speed howling: Owners report low speed howling coming from the Spyder. Since no or limited comment has been offered from BRP, owners have looked at everything from Belt tension (too tight/too loose) to wheel bearings and potential transmission issues. BRP should formally address this issue and offer a bulletin to dealers and a informal recall to re-check each Spyder.

Buzzing noise: Owners report several variations of a buzzing noise in the rear of the spyder under moderate acceleration. This could also be related to the low speed howling issue as well and be part of the same problem that is causing that issue. BRP should formally address this issue and offer a bulletin to dealers and a informal recall to re-check each Spyder.

Overheating: Owners report overheating and the Spyder going into limp mode under normal driving. This occurs on bikes that are in or out of the break in period. Overheating can cause serious and permanent damage to the vehicle, not to mention leaving riders stranded in closed interstates in "limp mode" with limited speed. This represents a safety issue as well. BRP should formally address this issue and offer a bulletin to dealers and a formal recall to re-check each Spyder.

Shocks leaking: Owners report fluid leaking from shocks. This represents a safety issue as oils and fluids that have the potential to cause slick spots on the ground, leak onto braking equipment, etc can cause serious problems for both vehicle and rider. BRP should formally address this issue and offer a bulletin to dealers and a formal recall to re-check each Spyder.

Oil leaks: The standard copper washers that BRP uses continue to leak even after being replaced. Owners have resulted to nylon, rubber embossed replacements, etc to stop the leaks. Oil leaks represent serious safety issues for both vehicle and rider. BRP should formally address this issue and offer a bulletin to dealers and a formal recall to re-check each Spyder.

Sputtering and or dead spots in acceleration: Owners report a variety of fuel system or engine tune issues are various stages of mileage. Spyders have been known to "die" at stop lights and intersections. This represents a safety issue as a stalled Spyder in traffic can cause potential damage to vehicle and rider. BRP should formally address this issue and offer a bulletin to dealers and a formal recall to re-check each Spyder.

SE5 Transmission issues: Owners report issues with the SE5 transmission not completely disengaging at stops. This can cause the Spyder to "jump" or move forward when the brake is not applied. This represents a safety issue and can cause vehicle and rider damage. BRP should formally address this issue and offer a bulletin to dealers and a formal recall to re-check each Spyder.

Many of these issues are NOT simple annoyances... they are safety related and put riders at potential risk. BRP needs to address these issues before these issues get someone hurt.

Thoughts?

This post has been edited by asmdjackal: 09 September 2008 - 01:57 PM

[B1TTEN #509]

Well the man that can answer that is going to be on the chat this Sunday? Have you contacted the spyder team with the list of issues? Have you let your dealer know? Yes some of them are less than Annoyances and yes I would like answers and fixes to all. I would go for sending the exhaust back and some compensation. Chat is with Marc L 09/21 and maybe we can get answers at Gatlinburg. Squealing is annoying

[sabunim5]

I would add the dreaded "oil in the airbox" issue. This comes from the crankcase breather line and is easily fixed per Tharkun409's post. For those that have not done that fix themselves it does become a safety issue with oil leaking out the front of the airbox onto evrything underneath. I have reported it to my dealer in writing. If you contact BRP they say tell your dealer. I have.

[BeRight]

You raise good points but what is your plan to get these issues resolved.

I didn't notice on your list the smelling of gas fumes. As we all know gas fumes can easily detonate.

You obviously have strong convictions about this and so you might want to draft a plan to go forward. I would suggest a plan would include contacting the press, the power of the press should not be under estimated.

[Marc]

My reaction to all this is....

I'm going to go ride my Spyder

[SpyderGirl]

I have been scared to ride my Spyder to work as there are many times we have to sit in traffic on our way home from work. One time of the Spyder overheated very quickly (from 4 bars to full on hot (whatever the max is) in moderately hot temperatures (82 - 85 degrees ambient temperature) and shut down on us leaving us stranded on the side of the highway for nearly an hour. And now the persistent apparent overheating issue after checking the fan switch relay, replacing of said relay, and the topping off of the coolant level, not to mention the replacement to the Hindle exhaust (and yes I followed the break-in procedure to the letter). This started at around mile 5000 and we are on 6300 now.

You should also mention the brake failure codes (which was also on a SE5 demo I rode last weekend) and the complete failure of the parking brake.

This post has been edited by SpyderGirl: 09 September 2008 - 04:28 PM

[SpyderGirl]

sabunim5, on Sep 9 2008, 12:58 PM, said:

I would add the dreaded "oil in the airbox" issue. This comes from the crankcase breather line and is easily fixed per Tharkun409's post. For those that have not done that fix themselves it does become a safety issue with oil leaking out the front of the airbox onto evrything underneath. I have reported it to my dealer in writing. If you contact BRP they say tell your dealer. I have.

I have not noticed this but will check for it when I do my oil change.

[Twodog185]

[quote name='asmdjackal' date='Sep 9 2008, 02:55 PM' post='68327']
There are alot of separate threads on a variety of issues. I'd like to use this thread to collectively summarize those issues and discuss leveraged action to get the issues resolved. IE, individual haggling with dealers on brake squeals is not the answer to the solution - BRP needs to address this directly. If that means a class action suit must be filed - we should keep all options open.

Annoyances or non safety related issues will be "informal recalls". All items with safety related issues will be referred to as "formal" recall.

I'll take a stab at a summary, please add comments per topic:

It's a new machine, with new technology. But it takes old school imagination to maximize your enjoyment potential.

Brake Squeal: Owners report persistent brake squeal even after the break in period as recommended by BRP. Several methods of deglazing have been tried, several methods of anti squeak pad compounds have been tried, heatshields around proportioning valves, etc..

$15 and 2 hours. If you're too stupid to do it, you maybe shouldn't buy anything that has a motor.


Uneven Tire wear: Owners report odd tread wear on the front tires, mostly the outer edges of the front tires.

3,000 service included alignment. If you didn't get your front end aligned, who's fault is that? Oh, no sign of uneven tire wear.


Muffler burn spots: Owners report burn spots that "grow" on the spyders exhaust. Though many users have replaced the

Personally, I didn't like the OEM, so I didn't have it on long enough. When BRP decides to replace my OEM, I'll put it on the shelf where the old one is.


Low Speed howling: Owners report low speed howling coming from the Spyder. Since no or limited comment has been offered from BRP,

Never have experienced "low speed".

Buzzing noise: Owners report several variations of a buzzing noise in the rear of the spyder under moderate acceleration.

Overlapping issue IMO, need a bigger towel.

Overheating: Owners report overheating and the Spyder going into limp mode under normal driving. This occurs on bikes that are in or out of the break in period.

Rides hot and overheating, 2 different issues. Never overheated, but cured the heat from the machine. All internal cumbustion engines create heat. $12 and 1 hour. Again, it's an IQ thing.

Shocks leaking: Owners report fluid leaking from shocks. This represents a safety issue as oils and fluids that have the potential to cause slick spots on the ground,

Nope, not that either. Never even heard a peep about this one.

Oil leaks: The standard copper washers that BRP uses continue to leak even after being replaced. Owners have resulted to nylon,

Zero dollars, and 90 seconds. Found less than a thimble full of residue oil in my air box after 100 miles of hard riding. Scrubber pad material put in oil breather line. Solved.

Sputtering and or dead spots in acceleration: Owners report a variety of fuel system or engine tune issues are various stages of mileage.

Not aware of the issue. No comment.

SE5 Transmission issues: Owners report issues with the SE5 transmission not completely disengaging at stops.

Don't have one, won't buy one. But not because of your complaint.


I know it's harsh. But this post came in pretty stout. If you get in somebody's face, expect to smell their breathe.

[Feo]

I am with you on a few of those. My main concern is the overheating, and if permanent damage was done when it happned as I went into linmp mode and took me a while to get to the side of teh freeway at over 100 degrees F every time that happenned.
I called BRP about it and they told me to tell my dealer. No effort to take note of my concern. I did but they had nothing to say. They don't really know much about the Spyder. The techs were actually asking me technical questions about it.

[Blackwidow74]

I told my dealer about the burn spots on my stock pipe and BRP replaced it, saying some of them have been recalled.
I heard a squeal from my brakes and told my dealerk, but they said there shouldn't be anything wrong with my breaks. After 4500 miles I have not heard them since and I am now at 6800 miles.
My Spyder does get hot when I get caught in traffic, but the fan does kick on and it has never stopped on me.
My parking break would not work at about 3000 miles, I took it in to the dealer and they did some kind of adjustment and it has worked fine since.
Haven't had that problem with an oil leak.
I have been getting a sputter and a pop at low speedsk, my spyder is at Berts Mega Mall now getting that 6000 mile valve adjustment which should cost $800. I let them know about the sputters and pops, I should pick it up tomorrow mourning.

[asmdjackal]

TwoDog185......

Breath? People spend $18K on machines that don't function properly, have serious issues that could endanger yourself and others around you. Your "solutions" are all $15 dollar fixes and 2 hours of rigging. All of which shouldn't be required. If you go buy a new vehicle from a automotive manufacturer and ANYTHING is wrong with it, you can take it back and get it repaired/resolved in most cases.

The Spyder is not a dirt bike, ATV or other recreation toy that should be pulled apart and fixed with multiple $15 trips to Autozone. This is a vehicle that puts you in the same traffic as SUV's - again using your lingo, its a intelligence thing, you should at least be concerned about that type of stuff.

I personally do not have all of these issues, only a handful of them - I am simply pulling together all of the complaint threads (There are LOTS of them, look around the forums a bit) and offering to help bring these things together to try and get some assistance. Everyone that goes to the dealer, calls BRP, etc... get virtually no where. No one listens to little squeaking wheels, but put everything together and it becomes a shriek (kind of like my Spyder brakes) that must be dealt with. If you have issues - please contribute. If you just want to call people stupid for not pulling their brakes apart on a $18K new vehicle.... don't disrupt this post for the people that WANT to get these issues resolved by the real responsible party - BRP.

This post has been edited by asmdjackal: 09 September 2008 - 06:58 PM

[jpcspyder]

asmdjackal, on Sep 9 2008, 07:56 PM, said:

TwoDog185......

Breath? People spend $18K on machines that don't function properly, have serious issues that could endanger yourself and others around you. Your "solutions" are all $15 dollar fixes and 2 hours of rigging. All of which shouldn't be required. If you go buy a new vehicle from a automotive manufacturer and ANYTHING is wrong with it, you can take it back and get it repaired/resolved in most cases.

The Spyder is not a dirt bike, ATV or other recreation toy that should be pulled apart and fixed with multiple $15 trips to Autozone. This is a vehicle that puts you in the same traffic as SUV's - again using your lingo, its a intelligence thing, you should at least be concerned about that type of stuff.

I personally do not have all of these issues, only a handful of them - I am simply pulling together all of the complaint threads (There are LOTS of them, look around the forums a bit) and offering to help bring these things together to try and get some assistance. Everyone that goes to the dealer, calls BRP, etc... get virtually no where. No one listens to little squeaking wheels, but put everything together and it becomes a shriek (kind of like my Spyder brakes) that must be dealt with. If you have issues - please contribute. If you just want to call people stupid for not pulling their brakes apart on a $18K new vehicle.... don't disrupt this post for the people that WANT to get these issues resolved by the real responsible party - BRP.

I have mixed feelings about this. We all kinda knew what we were signing up for when we bought a brand new vehicle. I agree that the company and/or dealer network should be dealing with some of these issues. I hate the darn brakes. Totally suck. The belt design is obysmal. The signal lights are downright criminal. But, again, this is a new vehicle and some of these things are to be expected.

The real crux of the situation is BRP's response to these things. I have not seen good responses from the company. I do much work on my machines myself so this is not necessarily a HUGE deal to me but for others, it could be. I have adjusted my belt, done a front end alignment, changed my own oil, adjusted my parking brake, installed my own power outlet, installed hyperlites, etc. I know this is not in many owner's sweet spots. BRP needs to respond to these issues for everyone but especially the less mechanically inclined.

Frankly, depending on how these sorts of issues are addressed, many of us trail blazing owners may move on to something else. BRP has not done itself any favors yet. There is still time for them to make good but before long, those crowds of people that gather around me in store parking lots will begin to hear about some of these issues. That would not be good for BRP.

BRP is not a stupid company. They have been successful for a reason. I find it hard to believe they would not understand the power of the spoken word from happy owners...and vice versa. They will do the right thing or they will pay the ultimate price.

[dltang]

I agree there are a variety of issues that should be addressed, but I don't think a class action lawsuit is the way to go about it at this time. Why sink the ship before it is at full sail so to speak. We need and want this company to succeed. The other very important thing to remember is that even though these issues are very vocal an apparent on a forum, this is really a very small percentage of owners that come to these forums. And out of the members here a small percentage of these owners has had each of these problems. Very few have had everyone of these problems. Also, how many with problems have actually gone to their dealerships to solve any of this. Some dealers are obviously better than others. For instance, we never told our dealers about a burn spot on our muffler, other than in casual conversation, we replaced them with Hindles anyway. I just had my parking brake replaced and the squeak taken care of under warranty by BRP through my dealership. The dealer is the one that ordered a brake for me, I didn't even know the kit was available. This is what the dealerships are supposed to do for their customers. I totally agree that BRP hasn't handled everything just the right way and they have some "fixes" to do but it is a new product and I for one am a big fan. I would never be part of a class action suit that could potentially cripple the future of my machine.

[VBsypder]

Twodog185, on Sep 9 2008, 05:48 PM, said:

$15 and 2 hours. If you're too stupid to do it, you maybe shouldn't buy anything that has a motor.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Law suit - not there yet. I broke one rule when I got the Spyder: Don't buy the first year of a vehicle taken directly from concept. So I knew what I was getting into, but didn't expect the number of issues that have occurred.

BRP is new to the street, and they can't have the same stance as off road producers any more. Off road they had the luxury to absolve themselves from issues that could be related to off road abuse.

If they do not evolve, then a law suit will be moot.

[spyryder]

VBsypder, on Sep 9 2008, 08:53 PM, said:

Stupid is as stupid does.

Law suit - not there yet. I broke one rule when I got the Spyder: Don't buy the first year of a vehicle taken directly from concept. So I knew what I was getting into, but didn't expect the number of issues that have occurred.

BRP is new to the street, and they can't have the same stance as off road producers any more. Off road they had the luxury to absolve themselves from issues that could be related to off road abuse.

If they do not evolve, then a law suit will be moot.

What about your '05 Magnum R/T

[Mark S.]

asmdjackal, on Sep 9 2008, 01:55 PM, said:

There are alot of separate threads on a variety of issues. I'd like to use this thread to collectively summarize those issues and discuss leveraged action to get the issues resolved.

The reality is we're only talking about a few machines for each of these issues. While that may not be much comfort to those who want an immediate response from BRP, it does remain a fact.

As others have pointed out, we all bought a machine like no other out there on the street. With that comes the fact we are riding machines only one version away from prototype -- there are gonna be growing pains.

Each of us got a machine with a two-year warranty, so no one has been cheated yet. I suggest if you feel your machine is a candidate that you check into your state's lemon laws. Going into a dealer for the same problem a certain number of times within a certain time frame is usually the only requirement.

If you wanna put pressure on BRP forget the class action stuff -- the lemon laws have much more bite with a much better chance of bearing $fruit$.

To date, my biggest concern is the report from Ken at Evoluzione that he witnessed a Spyder turn it's own handlebars as a result of a malfunctioning DPS. Frankly, I'm surprised I haven't seen more discussion on this here on the forums. NONE of the other mentioned problems holds the potential for loss of control and the commensurate increase in risk of injury or death.

If a Spyder customer succeeds in finding an attorney willing to pursue a case against BRP, I predict this problem will be the one he or she bases it on.

Regards,

Mark

This post has been edited by Mark S.: 09 September 2008 - 09:20 PM

[Jeff in Dallas]

Class Action Law Suit? Wow...

[SpyderGirl]

I think I know the difference of running hot and overheating thank you much! When the temp gauge is all the way up and then when I pull over and shut it off and it won't start up or even power up again for 30+ minutes, that's a problem. When I sit at a normal traffic light for less than one minute and it jumps up from four bars to six and seven I'd say that's a cooling system issue. Some of these few things are pretty serious, most are just random annoyances. I'm dealing with the few issues I've had and I blame no one. It's new, as long as I have my warranty I'm not worried. In two years when it expires I would assume all the kinks will have been worked out. In the meantime you'll catch me with a smile on my face everytime I throw my leg over that saddle and I won't regret ever buying it.

[sleepman]

Mark S., on Sep 9 2008, 10:18 PM, said:

The reality is we're only talking about a few machines for each of these issues. While that may not be much comfort to those who want an immediate response from BRP, it does remain a fact.

As others have pointed out, we all bought a machine like no other out there on the street. With that comes the fact we are riding machines only one version away from prototype -- there are gonna be growing pains.

I'd go along with this summation. We're on an internet forum and every forum for every bike I've ever owned the negatives far out weigh the good. For my former 08 kLR all I ever read about was that it burns a quart of oil in 500 miles and the turn signals fall off. Everyone who had that problem wanted to sue Kawasaki. Well I did 5k in about 3.5 months on it and no oil burn, sustained freeway speeds were included.

So far I'm happy with my Spyder. Do my brakes squeal, yes but most every vehicle I've ever driven has had a break squeal from time to time. Is there a burn spot in my muffler, yes but I replaced the stock muffler so I don't need a new one just so it can collect dust. Do I hear a "howl" at low speeds, yes I do but only when slowing down for a stop and I really believe this is just a result of having such a large tire. Ever listen to a 4x4 with mud tires going down the road, you hear the tire howl.

As for the overheating issue, I ride in the hottest of Florida's hot and have never gotten over 5 bars.

[Twodog185]

I apologize.

I bought knowing full well it's a new machine with new technology and would have issues, that's why I bought the extended warranty and service contract. My 2006 Ranger only cost $15K, and after 70K miles hasn't cost me a dime other than oil changes every 3K miles. I've changed a few things I didn't like, but it isn't a $35K Explorer, either.

I feel for those that have experienced such things as overheating.....a complex problem that could be an extensive fix. I also feel for any that have experienced computer issues, again, a complex fix.

I have no patience for anybody that refuses to go down to Autozone and spend the $15 to fix their squeaky brakes until BRP/Can-Am finds the permanent solution.

I'm glad not all Americans are like that, or we'd still have rotory phones.