[johndjmix]

Hey guys, just figured I would let you guys know, next month spyder #216 is going into my shop for a Turbo.

Definatly a new thing for me, never fabricated a turbo system before, but like everything....ill figure it out. Im planing not to mess with the computer, im just going to add an extra injector in the intake and control it with a standalone fuel mgt system. Anyone know of a small, stand alone fuel mgt system to run an extra injector?

Planing on running really low boost, proboly 5 pounds, due to the compression ratio.
Ive done a lot of MAJOR projects like this, so tackleing the spyder turbo shouldnt be too bad.. Check out my R1 Banshee for my last project:

http://www.johnhasmo...street_banshee/


--John

[asmdjackal]

johndjmix, on Jun 13 2008, 07:01 PM, said:

Hey guys, just figured I would let you guys know, next month spyder #216 is going into my shop for a Turbo.

Definatly a new thing for me, never fabricated a turbo system before, but like everything....ill figure it out. Im planing not to mess with the computer, im just going to add an extra injector in the intake and control it with a standalone fuel mgt system. Anyone know of a small, stand alone fuel mgt system to run an extra injector?

Planing on running really low boost, proboly 5 pounds, due to the compression ratio.
Ive done a lot of MAJOR projects like this, so tackleing the spyder turbo shouldnt be too bad.. Check out my R1 Banshee for my last project:

http://www.johnhasmo...street_banshee/
--John

You could use a megasquirt to control a extra injector or two... Other things to consider - even at 5PSI, the pressurized air will be VERY hot which will also not help the detonation issue. The Spyder is already 10.8:1 and 5PSI might not be a good thing without proper intercooling, etc...

There is something you might be able to do, to assist with both your fuel, heat and octane concerns... look at using a Snow (or equivalent) water/methanol injection system... This will give you the fuel you need, the methanol will give you the octane to ward off detonation and you'll get the artificail intercooler benefits as well. Its boost referenced so your spyder will idle and run perfect under no boost on the stock fuel system - and when you start to spool it up, the snow controller will take over and push the fuel. Plus, its $260 @ Summit.... Sure beats a multi hundred dollar injector controller, intercooler, splice into fuel system, detonation.... the list goes on.

Your next big hurdle will be the oiling system... If you plan on using the spyders oil system, you'll have to splice in and a return to the tank... a gravity return at that. If you dont mount the turbo high enough, you can use a oil scavenge system, but atain, a couple hundred bucks for a good pump rated to take the heat of hot oil to return it to the crank case.

Fabbing pipes is the easy part....

I was asking if anyone had tried this in another post - and mixed comments came in. I am all for putting a turbo on one of these things if nothing else - you'd be unique. Please keep us posted with pics of your build and of course the parts list/results of your fun. Feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions that I might be able to help with.... I've turbo'd several vehicles in my day.

Good luck!

[Tarantula]

asmdjackal, on Jun 17 2008, 09:01 AM, said:

You could use a megasquirt to control a extra injector or two... Other things to consider - even at 5PSI, the pressurized air will be VERY hot which will also not help the detonation issue. The Spyder is already 10.8:1 and 5PSI might not be a good thing without proper intercooling, etc...

There is something you might be able to do, to assist with both your fuel, heat and octane concerns... look at using a Snow (or equivalent) water/methanol injection system... This will give you the fuel you need, the methanol will give you the octane to ward off detonation and you'll get the artificail intercooler benefits as well. Its boost referenced so your spyder will idle and run perfect under no boost on the stock fuel system - and when you start to spool it up, the snow controller will take over and push the fuel. Plus, its $260 @ Summit.... Sure beats a multi hundred dollar injector controller, intercooler, splice into fuel system, detonation.... the list goes on.

Your next big hurdle will be the oiling system... If you plan on using the spyders oil system, you'll have to splice in and a return to the tank... a gravity return at that. If you dont mount the turbo high enough, you can use a oil scavenge system, but atain, a couple hundred bucks for a good pump rated to take the heat of hot oil to return it to the crank case.

Fabbing pipes is the easy part....

I was asking if anyone had tried this in another post - and mixed comments came in. I am all for putting a turbo on one of these things if nothing else - you'd be unique. Please keep us posted with pics of your build and of course the parts list/results of your fun. Feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions that I might be able to help with.... I've turbo'd several vehicles in my day.

Good luck!

Hey I love the fact that you're going to try and turbo the Spyder. I wish you all the luck in the world! I just remember reading a post in which Ken from Evoluzione said it wasnt possible because of the irregular idle or something to that nature. Before you go out and spend thousands of dollars I would consult with him just to get the facts. Take care.

[widowmaker2011]

Take about ten minutes , ok maybe 15 and follow this thread. You will learn alot about what the v990 motor likes and dislikes in the way of boost and all the hoops one needs to jump through to get the hp. With the way this twin is timed , induction wise , I would never do a turbo project, Supercharging would be the answer if i really had to have boost.
If it were me , my money would be spent with Ken on normal bolt on stuff before I went the forced induction route, but if you must , the guy on this thread really did it right...

http://www.apriliafo...ad.php?t=110828

This post has been edited by widowmaker2011: 20 June 2008 - 08:59 AM

[ROTAX GOD]

johndjmix, on Jun 13 2008, 08:01 PM, said:

Hey guys, just figured I would let you guys know, next month spyder #216 is going into my shop for a Turbo.

Definatly a new thing for me, never fabricated a turbo system before, but like everything....ill figure it out. Im planing not to mess with the computer, im just going to add an extra injector in the intake and control it with a standalone fuel mgt system. Anyone know of a small, stand alone fuel mgt system to run an extra injector?

Planing on running really low boost, proboly 5 pounds, due to the compression ratio.
Ive done a lot of MAJOR projects like this, so tackleing the spyder turbo shouldnt be too bad.. Check out my R1 Banshee for my last project:

http://www.johnhasmo...street_banshee/
--John

ROTAX GOD is watching this one carfully!!!

[johndjmix]

Thanks for all your input guys. Havent started it yet, been working 20 hour days....

But, really what im looking for here isnt all just power (Dont get me wrong, I LOVE power)....but just to get it done, and have a smooth running machine.

I was thinking the water injection BTW......good idea. I was going to try it without first.

--John

[mbarryracing]

Don't waste your time with the plumbing and trying to control an additional injector when the stock BRP / VDO fuel system will supply adaquate fuel flow and pressure to accomodate boosting a stock engine with pump gas anyhow... under 12 psi.
All you need is an add-on type fuel manager that plugs inline between the ECM and injector harness which senses boost and RPM, then alters the pulse width / duty cycle to the injectors according to specific calibrations that can be programmed into it. (like a PowerCommander, Boondocker, Dobek, etc)
I know the version of these managers exclusively used on Full Power Performance turbo kits for snowmobiles with factory EFI. Very simple and clean, cheaper than creating a whole new system, and utilize ALL factory reliable fuel system components.

Here is a pic of a custom Yamaha R1 that Full Power Performance did, using this same fuel manager with the stock fuel system. No extra injectors, minisquirts, or other gizmos. This made 200+HP at the rear wheels on pump gas live on the web at www.dynotechresearch.com.

I won't even ride it... Awesome.

A Spyder would be a blast with one of these!!!! Maybe even my Can AM 650XT? Hmmmm

Attached image(s)

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This post has been edited by mbarryracing: 02 July 2008 - 03:27 PM

[Danimal]

I guess I'm confused..... did you actually add a Turbo-charger to this Yamaha?

[mbarryracing]

Danimal, on Jul 3 2008, 04:46 PM, said:

I guess I'm confused..... did you actually add a Turbo-charger to this Yamaha?

I guess maybe the charger that is slightly visible under the "Turbo Yamaha" sticker isn't so obvious. Try this pic...
No I didn't personally, but am friends with the owner and the wizard who did and these for sure don't come from the factory with turbos...

Just showing an example of a clean turbo addition without all the extra fuel systems and their control boxes.
I think this could be done on a Spyder.

Attached image(s)

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This post has been edited by mbarryracing: 03 July 2008 - 04:48 PM

[evoluzione]

mbarryracing, on Jul 3 2008, 02:43 PM, said:

I guess maybe the charger that is slightly visible under the "Turbo Yamaha" sticker isn't so obvious. Try this pic...
No I didn't personally, but am friends with the owner and the wizard who did and these for sure don't come from the factory with turbos...

Just showing an example of a clean turbo addition without all the extra fuel systems and their control boxes.
I think this could be done on a Spyder.

fwiw, turbocharging an inline 4 cylinder (or any other even-firing engine) is worlds away from turbocharging a 60 degree v-twin - and i have personally done both. the airflow characteristics on an odd-firing engine create all types of issues.

[evoluzione]

mbarryracing, on Jul 2 2008, 11:10 AM, said:

Don't waste your time with the plumbing and trying to control an additional injector when the stock BRP / VDO fuel system will supply adaquate fuel flow and pressure to accomodate boosting a stock engine with pump gas anyhow... under 12 psi...

what other vehicles use the bpr/vdo-siemens computer on this v990 rotax engine? based on your comments it sounds as if you have already tested this out. i know we make about 160 h.p. normally aspirated (vs. the stock 106) and i'm sure it is less expensive, more reliabile and offers better drivability.

[mbarryracing]

evoluzione, on Jul 3 2008, 07:27 PM, said:

what other vehicles use the bpr/vdo-siemens computer on this v990 rotax engine? based on your comments it sounds as if you have already tested this out. i know we make about 160 h.p. normally aspirated (vs. the stock 106) and i'm sure it is less expensive, more reliabile and offers better drivability.

Just finished dyno tuning a trail turbo for the new Rotax 3 cylinder 4-Tek Skidoo snowmobile engine live on the web on 6/21.
http://dynotechresearch.com/blog/archives....enYear=2008#210

Although still an inline but happens to be odd firing by default and has the siemens VDO fuel system. Not sure if the controllers are the same but that really doesn't matter, it's the fuel sending unit and rail system that does.
Made 204HP on 87 octane pump gas with the stock engine, 230HP with high test, and turbos sometimes might be less expensive than trying to tweak 160 naturally asprirated. Atleast they are for snowmobiles...

[NVR2L8]

mbarryracing, on Jul 8 2008, 10:40 AM, said:

Just finished dyno tuning a trail turbo for the new Rotax 3 cylinder 4-Tek Skidoo snowmobile engine live on the web on 6/21.
http://dynotechresearch.com/blog/archives....enYear=2008#210

Although still an inline but happens to be odd firing by default and has the siemens VDO fuel system. Not sure if the controllers are the same but that really doesn't matter, it's the fuel sending unit and rail system that does.
Made 204HP on 87 octane pump gas with the stock engine, 230HP with high test, and turbos sometimes might be less expensive than trying to tweak 160 naturally asprirated. Atleast they are for snowmobiles...

Any concerns with increased engine heat after adding the Turbo?

[Danimal]

I don't see any video.... you say this was done 'live' on the web???

[asmdjackal]

mbarryracing, on Jul 3 2008, 04:43 PM, said:

I guess maybe the charger that is slightly visible under the "Turbo Yamaha" sticker isn't so obvious. Try this pic...
No I didn't personally, but am friends with the owner and the wizard who did and these for sure don't come from the factory with turbos...

Just showing an example of a clean turbo addition without all the extra fuel systems and their control boxes.
I think this could be done on a Spyder.

First off - VERY cool. Are you using a external scavenge pump for the oil return? The turbo is awful low, it sure isnt gravity returning. What pump are you using?

[basicbajax]

Ya it sure does not have a gravity drain. I would also like to know the pump maker. I am almost ready to do my dedicated oil system for my DS650 atv. I was considering the one from RBRacing.

[mbarryracing]

Danimal, on Jul 8 2008, 11:21 AM, said:

I don't see any video.... you say this was done 'live' on the web???

Yeah, that was live meaning "real time" so there wouldn't be any saved / downloadable video... Dynotech has a real time webcam for subscribers so you can watch the dyno room or the control room with the computer monitor readouts while they dyno test.

Realistically you can't ride these things on the street under boost for anything but short periods of time so overheating has never been an issue yet, especially with those wind speeds across the coolers. Snowmobiles can be if on bare ice with no powder for the coolers... but usually the exception.

Hey, good observation about the oil return... The turbos are lower than the engine oil for sure. Those bike and snowmobile turbo kits utilize electric oil scavenge pumps, not sure of the brand name as I think they recently switched to a different brand. You could call the shop and ask about their pumps.

This post has been edited by mbarryracing: 08 July 2008 - 01:28 PM

[CNC Pro]

basicbajax, on Jul 8 2008, 01:02 PM, said:

Ya it sure does not have a gravity drain. I would also like to know the pump maker. I am almost ready to do my dedicated oil system for my DS650 atv. I was considering the one from RBRacing.

Having owned an RB Racing BMW K100, I can say that was a wolf in sheep’s clothing! Tame around town while off boost, and ready to embarrass those pesky crotch rockets buzzing around with a simple twist-of-the wrist! Just keep the oil changed (I used premium stuff) and just enjoy the scenery flying by! And hang on tight. Great deep sound too!

[Danimal]

So what's the point of adding the turbo if you can't really ride it? Just to pull good numbers on a Dyno?

[asmdjackal]

Danimal, on Jul 8 2008, 04:43 PM, said:

So what's the point of adding the turbo if you can't really ride it? Just to pull good numbers on a Dyno?

On a regular bike - a turbo might have some "overkill" factor - lets face it, most of them run 11 and faster 1/4 mile runs on the stock motors. The Spyder is a different thing though - its not like we have to worry about flipping over on a wheelie (not yet anyways) and as you probably know - shes no crotch rocket. There is plenty of need and usability for a turbo on the spyder.