[TharkunRT]

jpcspyder, on May 2 2008, 06:36 PM, said:

So does anybody have a torque spec for the axle nut and also the size of that nut? I can't tell if it is 1 3/8 inch or 35 mm.

Axle nut is 36mm, but I don't recall the torque specs. Perhaps one of the members that have the shop manual will post it.

[araneae]

Tharkun#409, on May 2 2008, 06:53 PM, said:

Axle nut is 36mm, but I don't recall the torque specs. Perhaps one of the members that have the shop manual will post it.

The torque for the axle nut is 96 ft/lbf or 130 N/m. per the shop manual.

An inexpensive Gates tension gauge #91132 can be found here:
http://www.mainsupplies.com/index.php?main...products_id=323

I measured mine after first service at just over 300 and after the 3000 mile service at 300. Seems to work pretty consistently.

Bryan

[jpcspyder]

araneae, on May 3 2008, 12:03 AM, said:

The torque for the axle nut is 96 ft/lbf or 130 N/m. per the shop manual.

An inexpensive Gates tension gauge #91132 can be found here:
http://www.mainsupplies.com/index.php?main...products_id=323

I measured mine after first service at just over 300 and after the 3000 mile service at 300. Seems to work pretty consistently.

Bryan

Thanks, that torque spec was the last piece of data I needed to do the work.

So, now I have completed the job and I must say, it's a bit of a crap shoot. Problem comes from the fact that when you get every thing set right and then tighten the axle nut, the right side pulls back slightly due to the fact that there is no belt pulling on that side AND the act of tightening that nut pulls the axle slightly towards the rear.

However, I got the belt loosened to my liking and positioned about a mm from the flange so I'm happy. I went for a long ride and it seems fine.

So, to recap the specs in one place:

Belt should deflect 11/16 inch for 10 pounds of force
Axle nut should be torqued to 96 ft-lbs
Axle nut is 36 mm, Sears has the sockets
Belt should be a minimum 1 mm from the flange

Thanks for the help everybody.

[Danimal]

Where do you take the reading on the belt with the Gates tension gauge ?

Did you use two 36 MM sockets when torquing the axle?

I only bought one socket and then found out the other side spins.... wasn't sure if another socket would be best for the other side... or maybe a wrench?

This post has been edited by Danimal: 03 May 2008 - 09:52 PM

[araneae]

Danimal, on May 3 2008, 07:48 PM, said:

Where do you take the reading on the belt with the Gates tension gauge ?

Did you use two 36 MM sockets when torquing the axle?

I only bought one socket and then found out the other side spins.... wasn't sure if another socket would be best for the other side... or maybe a wrench?

With the wheel off the ground I use the tension gauge, pressing upward on the lower strand about half way between the sprockets. It clicks at a preset pressure so you don't have to try to measure deflection and makes the measurement quite repeatable. I use a 36mm socket on the nut and hold the other side with a wrench. It doesn't take too much force to hold it.

Bryan

[jpcspyder]

araneae, on May 4 2008, 02:45 PM, said:

With the wheel off the ground I use the tension gauge, pressing upward on the lower strand about half way between the sprockets. It clicks at a preset pressure so you don't have to try to measure deflection and makes the measurement quite repeatable. I use a 36mm socket on the nut and hold the other side with a wrench. It doesn't take too much force to hold it.

Bryan

Have you done this with the belt hot? After riding for a while, I notice that the belt tightens up a LOT. I checked it after a two hour ride and the deflection was about half of when it's cold for ten pounds of force.

Can someone tell me if you are supposed to check this thing hot or cold per the shop manual?

Thanks,

j

edit: Ok, I decided to loosen the hell out of the belt and see what happens. I'm not exactly sure how far I turned the screws but the belt is very loose when cold and the back wheel spins nicely now when spydee is jacked up, in neutral, and parking brake off. Previously, it was hard to spin it and sitting on the thing at stop lights on a hill it didn't roll easily by itself. Now, it is smoooooooooooooooth baby.

Also, there are no longer groaning and wierd noises when rolling slowly or starting out. Quite frankly, these belts are WAY over tightened. Some other observations:

The belt moves around quite a bit on the rear cog as you go around turns. The ONLY way to be sure you have the belt adjusted properly side to side is to go straight for a few hundred feet and stop to check the belt placement without turning first.

Also, this belt needs to be adjusted to the spec when HOT. I believe that the rear cog is heating up during operation as does the belt. However, the coefficient of thermal expansion for the metal is far greater than the rubber and thus the belt gets tighted as every thing heats up. The expansion of the cog causes it to get bigger and take up more belt.

THIS IS A BIG DEAL! This belt MUST be adjusted properly or you will get premature rear bearing failure at worst and poor gas mileage and performance at best. Can Am needs to address this issue or they are going to buying a LOT of bearings.

This belt would have to be floppy beyond belief to actually slip. Think about how many teeth are engaged around the cogs...nearly 50% of the teeth on the front and over 50% on the back. It simply can't go anywhere!

Just my $.02

This post has been edited by jpcspyder: 16 May 2008 - 01:11 PM

[iSpy]

Untechnical and simple check that I have found helpful. With engine off, brake off, in neutral, on flat surface - gently push.

Spyder's resistance to rolling was greater than expected (experience- probably a chart somewhere:) Easily ruled out everything except drive belt adjustment. Since Spyder was scheduled within days for 625 mile service decided to let dealer do it.

At 625 mile service asked about drive belt adjustment. Tech said "Looked OK" like appropriate space between belt and cog. He could tell I was not convinced and went to get feeler gauge. Drive belt was tight up against cog, could not even get gauge in. He adjusted drive belt, test rode, and rechecked, as recommended.

What a difference! Power, mileage, engine and ride smoothness. Possibly, as others noted, may be set at factory to possibly error in direction of cog, as the alternative, could result in greater risk of belt coming off.

The 625 mile service is not just an oil change. I feel that cost for 625 fair as long as all inspections occur.

This post has been edited by iSpy: 17 May 2008 - 10:43 AM

[Oregon1]

jpcspyder, on May 16 2008, 05:15 AM, said:

Have you done this with the belt hot? After riding for a while, I notice that the belt tightens up a LOT. I checked it after a two hour ride and the deflection was about half of when it's cold for ten pounds of force.

Can someone tell me if you are supposed to check this thing hot or cold per the shop manual?

Thanks,

j

edit: Ok, I decided to loosen the hell out of the belt and see what happens. I'm not exactly sure how far I turned the screws but the belt is very loose when cold and the back wheel spins nicely now when spydee is jacked up, in neutral, and parking brake off. Previously, it was hard to spin it and sitting on the thing at stop lights on a hill it didn't roll easily by itself. Now, it is smoooooooooooooooth baby.

Also, there are no longer groaning and wierd noises when rolling slowly or starting out. Quite frankly, these belts are WAY over tightened. Some other observations:

The belt moves around quite a bit on the rear cog as you go around turns. The ONLY way to be sure you have the belt adjusted properly side to side is to go straight for a few hundred feet and stop to check the belt placement without turning first.

Also, this belt needs to be adjusted to the spec when HOT. I believe that the rear cog is heating up during operation as does the belt. However, the coefficient of thermal expansion for the metal is far greater than the rubber and thus the belt gets tighted as every thing heats up. The expansion of the cog causes it to get bigger and take up more belt.

THIS IS A BIG DEAL! This belt MUST be adjusted properly or you will get premature rear bearing failure at worst and poor gas mileage and performance at best. Can Am needs to address this issue or they are going to buying a LOT of bearings.

This belt would have to be floppy beyond belief to actually slip. Think about how many teeth are engaged around the cogs...nearly 50% of the teeth on the front and over 50% on the back. It simply can't go anywhere!

Just my $.02

jpcspyder: Excellent post thanks for all the info,i got that growling going on a low speed and dont like ,off to Sears for a socket Regards

[TharkunRT]

jpcspyder, on May 16 2008, 05:15 AM, said:

THIS IS A BIG DEAL! This belt MUST be adjusted properly or you will get premature rear bearing failure at worst and poor gas mileage and performance at best. Can Am needs to address this issue or they are going to buying a LOT of bearings.

In my opinion BRP has addressed this issue, first in the Owners Manual on pages 76 - 77 as to the Drive Belt Alignment of 1mm or 1/32" and the Tension to be checked by the dealer.

Also there are instructions for the tech to do this at the PDI before delivery to the customer.

Once the belt is properly adjusted/tensioned, it will be a non issue, I have over 3,300 miles on my Spyder and the belt has not needed any adjustment since the PDI. I know other members have more miles than I and have reported the same.

The only real "issue" is if the tech doing the PDI has properly adjusted the belt.

[Danimal]

I doubt they want to you tension the belt while it is 'hot'. Since rubber expands when hot you could easily over-tension the belt if you adjust it while the belt it 'hot'. When it cools off -- it will tighten up and could cause problems.

I think it would be much better to set the tension while cold - so you know the maximum possible pressure it will have... it will become looser as you ride and it gets heated up.

While the coefficient of thermal expansion for the metal is far greater than the rubber, the surface area of the metal is only around 1/6 the amount of the belt because the belt is so long..... the belt will expand more than the metal ever could.

Another question is should the belt tension be checked with a rider sitting on the bike? This is pretty common on other bikes.

The above is just my non-expert opinion.....

[jpcspyder]

Danimal, on May 17 2008, 10:30 PM, said:

I doubt they want to you tension the belt while it is 'hot'. Since rubber expands when hot you could easily over-tension the belt if you adjust it while the belt it 'hot'. When it cools off -- it will tighten up and could cause problems.

I think it would be much better to set the tension while cold - so you know the maximum possible pressure it will have... it will become looser as you ride and it gets heated up.

While the coefficient of thermal expansion for the metal is far greater than the rubber, the surface area of the metal is only around 1/6 the amount of the belt because the belt is so long..... the belt will expand more than the metal ever could.

Another question is should the belt tension be checked with a rider sitting on the bike? This is pretty common on other bikes.

The above is just my non-expert opinion.....

With all due respect, my belt is WAY tighter when the bike is hot, having been run for some time. Maybe my explanation is not correct but there is absolutely NO DENYING that the belt is tighter when hot than when cold.

Honestly, I was a little shocked to see that myself but there it is.

I just got back from a 30 mile ride and checked the belt tension with my belt tension tool. I literally got off the bike and grabbed the tool and checked it so maybe a minute went by from engine shut off to belt check. It is now spot on at 11/16" with a 10 pound force when hot. I have it adjusted such that after driving in a straight line and stopping the belt is about 2-3 mm from the flange.

Also I should point out that since I did this adjustment, I filled up the tank and I have about 90 miles since the fill-up. There are still 4 bars of fuel showing and I don't think I've ever gotten this much out of a tank but we will see when I fill it up. I now have over 1,500 miles on the Spyder.

Stay tuned...

[Danimal]

It just doesn't make sense to me that it would be tighter after getting hot.

One of my mowers likes to pop a belt off from time to time... and it's always when the belt gets hot and doesn't fit as tight.

Any ideas Thark or Ken ????

This post has been edited by Danimal: 17 May 2008 - 10:14 PM

[jpcspyder]

Danimal, on May 17 2008, 11:12 PM, said:

It just doesn't make sense to me that it would be tighter after getting hot.

One of my mowers likes to pop a belt off from time to time... and it's always when the belt gets hot and doesn't fit as tight.

Any ideas Thark or Ken ????

I spoke to a Harley rider today for about a half an hour in the Costco parking lot. I asked him about the belt tightness and he agreed that the belt does get tighter with heat. Wierd.