[mckenziejon]

is the brake in oil synthetic?

[LittleJohn]

mckenziejon, on Mar 16 2008, 06:22 PM, said:

is the brake in oil synthetic?

I dont have one yet, but this is from the operators manual. I would assume from this that they come delivered with synthetic from the factory.

Recommended Oil
The same oil lubricates the engine, the
gearbox and the clutch.
Use BRP XP-S 5W40 synthetic oil
(P/N 293 600 039) or an equivalentmotorcycle
oil meeting the requirements
for API service SL, SJ, SH or SG classification.
Always check the API service
label on the oil container.
NOTICE To avoid damaging the
clutch, do not use a motor oil meeting
theAPI service SMor ILSACGF-4
classification. Clutch slippage will
occurs.

[Way2Fast]

mckenziejon, on Mar 16 2008, 11:22 PM, said:

is the brake in oil synthetic?

Vehicles do not come with "brake in oil". Some suggest that a mineral oil should be used for break in, while others (including myself) try to use synthetic from day one. The Spyder comes with BRP's XPS Synthetic 4 stroke oil from the factory.

Most of the high end performance cars also come with synthetic oil. Included are Dodge Vipers, Corvettes, Porsche etc.

[Wijllie]

at my BMW dealer they also use mineral oil for the break in period, synthetic afterwards.

Don't know why but they must have a reason to do this and not because the oil is cheaper

[Nancy'sToy]

Wijllie, on Mar 17 2008, 03:24 PM, said:

at my BMW dealer they also use mineral oil for the break in period, synthetic afterwards.

Don't know why but they must have a reason to do this and not because the oil is cheaper

BMW does this because they feel synthetic is too slippery to allow the parts to wear into each other properly, and seat well. After the break-in period, they allow you to use either. Dry clutch, at least with the R-bikes, so differences in the friction coeffient do not need to be considered for the BMW. If BRP is using synthetic from square one, it could explain the blow-by reported by some Spyder owners during, and even after break-in. The manufacturers usually know best in this department, use what they provide it with, and then the recommended oil after the first change IMHO.

-Scotty

[Putt-Putt]

I was thinking a petrolium for brake in too. So rings could have a chance to seat. My Outlander 800 came with synthetic also. I now use Shell Rotela syn. 5/40. I have to find out if it will work in the Spyder though? And the BMW dealers I know also recommend petrolium especially for break in. And your choise afterwards. BMW as I understand it, has an especially hardened cyclinders. I don't know about what the Spyder has. I hope I can use the Rotela. As it is a lot more readilly available, especially on trips. And cheaper too. New cars and trucks a few years ago didn't recommed syn. oil till it was broke in just so rings could have a chance to seat. I can't remember what my new Toyota Tundra came with. But I use regular Valvaline oil in it. Might switch to syn. when it gets a few more miles on it. I know if you use pure syn. oil in a wet clutch motorcycle you will be putting a new clutch in. Be cause it will slip, been there done that tried it more than once. The syn. oil they use in a wet clutch system is different not as slippery as pure syn. oil.

[Danimal]

"I know if you use pure syn. oil in a wet clutch motorcycle you will be putting a new clutch in. Be cause it will slip, been there done that tried it more than once. The syn. oil they use in a wet clutch system is different not as slippery as pure syn. oil."

I think this answers why they use Synthetic from the get-go. The BRP Syn oil is not as 'slippery' as 'pure' or 'normal' Syn oil - therefore it should operate more like petrolium oil in regards to the rings.

Sounds to me like using what they recommend you will get the best of both worlds.

I wonder if we can find out what the BRP oil really is - maybe order it in bulk -

[Putt-Putt]

Can Am with their 4-wheelers the oil is made by casterol. A long time ago Casterol was one of the best, but today there are better oils out there. Goldin Spectro- Redline-Bmw oil-- but I'm not sure on the BMW syn. oil as BMW uses a dry clutch so you can use any oil in it. Mobile 1- and Ams oil. Are I believe better.

[mckenziejon]

Danimal, on Mar 17 2008, 06:28 PM, said:

"I know if you use pure syn. oil in a wet clutch motorcycle you will be putting a new clutch in. Be cause it will slip, been there done that tried it more than once. The syn. oil they use in a wet clutch system is different not as slippery as pure syn. oil."

I think this answers why they use Synthetic from the get-go. The BRP Syn oil is not as 'slippery' as 'pure' or 'normal' Syn oil - therefore it should operate more like petrolium oil in regards to the rings.

Sounds to me like using what they recommend you will get the best of both worlds.

I wonder if we can find out what the BRP oil really is - maybe order it in bulk -

so you say brp's oil is semi sinthetic? does anyone have a bottle that says what it is? forgot to get oil and its 4hrs each way to dealer. any aftermarket or cross references on the oil filters yet?

[Way2Fast]

mckenziejon, on Mar 18 2008, 02:44 AM, said:

so you say brp's oil is semi sinthetic? does anyone have a bottle that says what it is? forgot to get oil and its 4hrs each way to dealer. any aftermarket or cross references on the oil filters yet?

The XP-X oil used in the Spyder is a full synthetic oil but it does not have friction modifiers so it is fine for wet clutch use. It is recommended for all Sea-doo and Can-Am 4 stroke engines. (from information on the label). In the 2007 BRP Accessory catalog they state that only XP-S Mineral oil should be used in Sea-doo 4-tec supercharged engines to prevent slippage of the SC clutch. This is contrary to what is printed on the synthetic oil label. It seems like another instance where BRP can't even agree among themselves !!

The XP-S Synthetic comes in a yellow bottle and the XP-S Mineral oil is in a white bottle.

[Putt-Putt]

Did they BRP change the color of the oil container? As the syn. ones I got for my Quad are black.

[05titanle]

Putt-Putt, on Mar 17 2008, 08:27 PM, said:

Can Am with their 4-wheelers the oil is made by casterol. A long time ago Casterol was one of the best, but today there are better oils out there. Goldin Spectro- Redline-Bmw oil-- but I'm not sure on the BMW syn. oil as BMW uses a dry clutch so you can use any oil in it. Mobile 1- and Ams oil. Are I believe better.

they did use castrol, but are switching to lube tech. the oil for the e-tec 600 sled motor is the first product from lube tech

[Danimal]

People can say they like whatever oil better than another -

The more important issue would be changing it often - in my opinion.

I'm going to stick with whatever BRP says - that way they can't give me crap is something goes wrong.

[Mark S.]

Putt-Putt, on Mar 17 2008, 05:55 PM, said:

I know if you use pure syn. oil in a wet clutch motorcycle you will be putting a new clutch in. Be cause it will slip, been there done that tried it more than once. The syn. oil they use in a wet clutch system is different not as slippery as pure syn. oil.

Read this for a good primer on engine oils:

http://www.calsci.co...info/Oils1.html


Executive summary:

Oil is oil; synthetics are neither more or less "slipery" than petroleum-based oils. The lubricity requirements for engine oil are specified by the engine manufacturer.

Oils bearing the "Energy Conserving" sticker contain friction modifiers that CAN interfere with wet clutch operation and should be avoided for motorcycle use.

Special "motorcyle" oils are hype. Petroleum-based multi-viscosity oils contain chemicals called Viscosity Index Improvers (VII). The VIIs control an oil's ability and/or tendency to flow. If an oil flows too much (it's too thin), it will run out of an area instead of providing the oil film necessary to lubricate. If an oil flows too little (it's too thick) it will never get to an area needing lubrication.

VIIs change shape with heat. At their shape changes, it affects the oil's viscosity (sometimes referred to as its weight). In the past, as temperatures changed with the seasons, owners had to change to a different weight oil because straight-weight oils, oils whose viscosity doesn't change with temperature, flow much less freely at lower temperatures. Most modern engine manufacturers specify a multi-visicosity oil for year-round use. The viscosity of these oils, expressed as a number typically from 5 to 50, changes with the tempurature. Lower viscosity oils flow more freely, higher viscosity less so. A modern multi-vis oil with a rating of 5 - 40 flows like a 5 weight oil (very thin) at low temperatures, and like a 40 weight oil (thicker) at higher temperatures.

Engine manufacturers specify an oil viscosity range for their engines. Oils must be at the required viscosity to provide required lubrication to all parts of the engine.

The special polymers that make up VIIs break under shear force -- like the kind you find in a motorcyle transmission (there are very few places in the engine where shear forces can be applied). When enough of the VIIs are broken, an oil is no longer able to maintain the specified viscosity. For example, an oil that may have been rated as a 5-40 oil when new may only actually be a 5-20 or 5-15 after its VIIs have broken down. A 15 weight oil is much thinner than a 40 weight oil and provides much less lubrication. For that, and other reasons such as contamination, oil must be replaced at certain intervals.

Oils advertised as "motorcycle" oils are supposed to contain "special" VIIs that don't break as easily as the VIIs in standard engine oils. That's BUNK! Read the info at the link above for detailed information about this.

The BEST oil to use if you are concerned about viscosity breakdown in your engine oil is synthetic oils. They don't break down like petroleum-based oils. When you replace a synthetic oil, you're doing so mainly to remove all the contaminants suspended in the oil from the engine. Filter that same oil thru a fine enough filter and you could put it right back in your engine and continue using it. In fact, many over-the-road trucks use just such a fine filtration system and run synthetic oil in their engines for over 100,000 miles WITHOUT CHANGING IT!

Shell Rotella T synthetic oil can be had for around $15 per gallon at your local Wal-Mart. Use it, change it at the normal interval and know you are using the BEST oil for the price you can for your machine.

Regards,

Mark Sletten

[Tonga]

Mark S., on Mar 19 2008, 09:27 AM, said:

Read this for a good primer on engine oils:

http://www.calsci.co...info/Oils1.html
Executive summary:

Oil is oil; synthetics are neither more or less "slipery" than petroleum-based oils. The lubricity requirements for engine oil are specified by the engine manufacturer.

Oils bearing the "Energy Conserving" sticker contain friction modifiers that CAN interfere with wet clutch operation and should be avoided for motorcycle use.

Special "motorcyle" oils are hype. Petroleum-based multi-viscosity oils contain chemicals called Viscosity Index Improvers (VII). The VIIs control an oil's ability and/or tendency to flow. If an oil flows too much (it's too thin), it will run out of an area instead of providing the oil film necessary to lubricate. If an oil flows too little (it's too thick) it will never get to an area needing lubrication.

VIIs change shape with heat. At their shape changes, it affects the oil's viscosity (sometimes referred to as its weight). In the past, as temperatures changed with the seasons, owners had to change to a different weight oil because straight-weight oils, oils whose viscosity doesn't change with temperature, flow much less freely at lower temperatures. Most modern engine manufacturers specify a multi-visicosity oil for year-round use. The viscosity of these oils, expressed as a number typically from 5 to 50, changes with the tempurature. Lower viscosity oils flow more freely, higher viscosity less so. A modern multi-vis oil with a rating of 5 - 40 flows like a 5 weight oil (very thin) at low temperatures, and like a 40 weight oil (thicker) at higher temperatures.

Engine manufacturers specify an oil viscosity range for their engines. Oils must be at the required viscosity to provide required lubrication to all parts of the engine.

The special polymers that make up VIIs break under shear force -- like the kind you find in a motorcyle transmission (there are very few places in the engine where shear forces can be applied). When enough of the VIIs are broken, an oil is no longer able to maintain the specified viscosity. For example, an oil that may have been rated as a 5-40 oil when new may only actually be a 5-20 or 5-15 after its VIIs have broken down. A 15 weight oil is much thinner than a 40 weight oil and provides much less lubrication. For that, and other reasons such as contamination, oil must be replaced at certain intervals.

Oils advertised as "motorcycle" oils are supposed to contain "special" VIIs that don't break as easily as the VIIs in standard engine oils. That's BUNK! Read the info at the link above for detailed information about this.

The BEST oil to use if you are concerned about viscosity breakdown in your engine oil is synthetic oils. They don't break down like petroleum-based oils. When you replace a synthetic oil, you're doing so mainly to remove all the contaminants suspended in the oil from the engine. Filter that same oil thru a fine enough filter and you could put it right back in your engine and continue using it. In fact, many over-the-road trucks use just such a fine filtration system and run synthetic oil in their engines for over 100,000 miles WITHOUT CHANGING IT!

Shell Rotella T synthetic oil can be had for around $15 per gallon at your local Wal-Mart. Use it, change it at the normal interval and know you are using the BEST oil for the price you can for your machine.

Regards,

Mark Sletten

Just would like to know if a 10W40 can be used in the Spyder instead of a 5W40? I prefer Mobil 1 and can only get in 10W40 Motorcycle oil.

[mckenziejon]

Tonga, on Mar 22 2008, 02:08 PM, said:

Just would like to know if a 10W40 can be used in the Spyder instead of a 5W40? I prefer Mobil 1 and can only get in 10W40 Motorcycle oil.

i found 5w40 mobil one deisel oil at autozone and it meets brps specs

[B1TTEN #509]

Amsoil or Mobile 1 for motorcycles.

[Tonga]

B1TTEN #509, on Mar 23 2008, 10:11 AM, said:

Amsoil or Mobile 1 for motorcycles.

Yes to Amsoil, but in my car. I still want to know it useing 10w40 over 5w40 would be an issue with BRP. I would not be driving in sub zero weather.

[Mark S.]

Tonga, on Mar 24 2008, 08:12 AM, said:

Yes to Amsoil, but in my car. I still want to know it useing 10w40 over 5w40 would be an issue with BRP. I would not be driving in sub zero weather.

Why would you want to use a Mobil One oil that doesn't meet manufacturer's specs and costs $5+ per quart when you can use Shell Rotella T Synthetic which DOES meet manufacturer's specs and costs only about $15 per gallon at your local Wal-Mart?

If I did the math correctly, you can buy four quarts of Shell Rotella T Synthetic for the cost of three quarts of Mobil One.

Mobil One and Amsoil "motorcycle" oils cost much more than Shell Rotella T Synthetic and provide no added benefit.

Regards,

Mark

[B1TTEN #509]

Tonga, on Mar 24 2008, 01:12 PM, said:

Yes to Amsoil, but in my car. I still want to know it useing 10w40 over 5w40 would be an issue with BRP. I would not be driving in sub zero weather.

Haven't we all been here before? i don't remember any shell products even ranking in the top 10. Get what you pay for.