[Lee]

Mark,
I swear, your the man. You are so through. Very informative, love reading your posts. I did what ken said as well, and mine have almost quit all together, I'm sure if I'd gone to the extent that Mark is saying it would be completely gone as he is correct that that is the best and most complete way to bed your brakes.

Good luck,
Lee

[MDR]

Mark S., on Apr 27 2008, 03:52 AM, said:

When you apply the brakes your Syder's speed is converted to worn away brake pad material and heat generated due to friction as the rotor wears away the brake pad. (Part of the rotor is also worn away, but nowhere near as much as the pads.) The brake pads actually "float" on a layer of brake dust -- worn away pad material -- between the rotor and pads which acts as a "lubricant" for lack of a better word.

If there is any chemical contaminant on the rotor or pads it could coat the pad, rotor or both (especially when the rotors/pads get hot) preventing the pads from wearing properly and depositing the requisite layer of dust on the rotor. Without that fine layer of dust, the pads can chatter -- rapidly grab and release. The chatter is so rapid, in fact, it sounds like a squeal. Think of a door hinge that needs lubrication and you get the idea.

Bedding in the brakes ensures the (clean) rotor is coated with a fine layer of necessary brake pad material while ensuring no contaminants interfere with the process.

To bed in the brakes:

1. You must ensure both the rotor and brake pads are clean and free of any contaminants. Thoroughly clean the rotor (both sides) with a solvent (I like acetone) to remove all oil and/or other residue. To clean the pads use a fine grit sand paper to remove a layer of material off the side facing the caliper. The intent is to remove enough pad material to take any contaminants too.

CAUTION: DON'T APPLY THE BRAKES WITH THE CALIPER REMOVED; THERE IS NOTHING TO STOP THE PISTON FROM PUSHING ALL THE WAY OUT OF THE CALIPER. IF THAT HAPPENS, ALL THE BRAKE FLUID IN THE LINE BEHIND THE PISTON WILL WIND UP ON THE FLOOR OF YOUR GARAGE/SHOP/DRIVEWAY. Ask me how I know...

If you somehow manage to ignore the above caution you will have to trailer your Spyder to the nearest dealer and have the lines bled -- there is no way I'm going to try to explain brake bleeding here...

2. Reinstall the pads being careful not to touch the rotor or pads (wear gloves).

3. Find a stretch of deserted road nearby. You'll probably need about three to five miles with no traffic behind you. Use the brakes as sparingly as possible until you can get to a stretch of deserted road. Pick a day with no rain and avoid any puddles which might splash road-grime-and-grease contaminated water on your brakes.

4. For the actual bed in procedure you accelerate to 70 - 80 mph, then apply the brakes with a medium to heavy pressure until slowed to 20 - 30 mph. You don't have to apply the brakes hard enough to engage the anti-lock, but don't be afraid to get on them hard, you are trying to generate as much brake dust as possible. Immediately accelerate back to 70 - 80 mph and repeat the cycle eight to ten times. NOTE: The brakes will get very hot; you will likely smell them for the first time. I probably don't have to tell you this, but DON'T TOUCH THEM! Aside from contaminating the rotors, you will likely burn yourself very badly.

5. After eight to ten cycles pull over and allow the brakes to cool for about 15 minutes before continuing. The cool down is important! Don't drive in traffic until the brakes have cooled. The rotors are going to be very hot and you don't want to sit stopped with the brakes pads clamped on the extremely hot rotors -- this might cause the rotors to warp.

If this doesn't stop the squealing you might need to actually replace the pads. If so, make sure you follow the same bedding in process.

I've bedded in the brakes on every new vehicle (motorcycle, car, Spyder) I've owned for the past 15 years -- no squeaky brakes. Brake bed in should be one of the first things you do when you get a new vehicle, or when you change pads and/or rotors on an old one.

Regards,

Mark

Thanks, Mark. I will definitely give it a try. I've sped up to 60-70 mph 4-5 times in a row and really stomped on the brakes. This seemed to help with the brake noise for a few days, but now it's back. The hardest part of your remedy will be finding 3-5 miles of open road with no traffic here in So. Cal.!

Mark S., on Apr 27 2008, 03:52 AM, said:

When you apply the brakes your Syder's speed is converted to worn away brake pad material and heat generated due to friction as the rotor wears away the brake pad. (Part of the rotor is also worn away, but nowhere near as much as the pads.) The brake pads actually "float" on a layer of brake dust -- worn away pad material -- between the rotor and pads which acts as a "lubricant" for lack of a better word.

If there is any chemical contaminant on the rotor or pads it could coat the pad, rotor or both (especially when the rotors/pads get hot) preventing the pads from wearing properly and depositing the requisite layer of dust on the rotor. Without that fine layer of dust, the pads can chatter -- rapidly grab and release. The chatter is so rapid, in fact, it sounds like a squeal. Think of a door hinge that needs lubrication and you get the idea.

Bedding in the brakes ensures the (clean) rotor is coated with a fine layer of necessary brake pad material while ensuring no contaminants interfere with the process.

To bed in the brakes:

1. You must ensure both the rotor and brake pads are clean and free of any contaminants. Thoroughly clean the rotor (both sides) with a solvent (I like acetone) to remove all oil and/or other residue. To clean the pads use a fine grit sand paper to remove a layer of material off the side facing the caliper. The intent is to remove enough pad material to take any contaminants too.

CAUTION: DON'T APPLY THE BRAKES WITH THE CALIPER REMOVED; THERE IS NOTHING TO STOP THE PISTON FROM PUSHING ALL THE WAY OUT OF THE CALIPER. IF THAT HAPPENS, ALL THE BRAKE FLUID IN THE LINE BEHIND THE PISTON WILL WIND UP ON THE FLOOR OF YOUR GARAGE/SHOP/DRIVEWAY. Ask me how I know...

If you somehow manage to ignore the above caution you will have to trailer your Spyder to the nearest dealer and have the lines bled -- there is no way I'm going to try to explain brake bleeding here...

2. Reinstall the pads being careful not to touch the rotor or pads (wear gloves).

3. Find a stretch of deserted road nearby. You'll probably need about three to five miles with no traffic behind you. Use the brakes as sparingly as possible until you can get to a stretch of deserted road. Pick a day with no rain and avoid any puddles which might splash road-grime-and-grease contaminated water on your brakes.

4. For the actual bed in procedure you accelerate to 70 - 80 mph, then apply the brakes with a medium to heavy pressure until slowed to 20 - 30 mph. You don't have to apply the brakes hard enough to engage the anti-lock, but don't be afraid to get on them hard, you are trying to generate as much brake dust as possible. Immediately accelerate back to 70 - 80 mph and repeat the cycle eight to ten times. NOTE: The brakes will get very hot; you will likely smell them for the first time. I probably don't have to tell you this, but DON'T TOUCH THEM! Aside from contaminating the rotors, you will likely burn yourself very badly.

5. After eight to ten cycles pull over and allow the brakes to cool for about 15 minutes before continuing. The cool down is important! Don't drive in traffic until the brakes have cooled. The rotors are going to be very hot and you don't want to sit stopped with the brakes pads clamped on the extremely hot rotors -- this might cause the rotors to warp.

If this doesn't stop the squealing you might need to actually replace the pads. If so, make sure you follow the same bedding in process.

I've bedded in the brakes on every new vehicle (motorcycle, car, Spyder) I've owned for the past 15 years -- no squeaky brakes. Brake bed in should be one of the first things you do when you get a new vehicle, or when you change pads and/or rotors on an old one.

Regards,

Mark

Thanks, Mark. I will definitely give it a try. I've sped up to 60-70 mph 4-5 times in a row and really stomped on the brakes. This seemed to help with the brake noise for a few days, but now it's back. The hardest part of your remedy will be finding 3-5 miles of open road with no traffic here in So. Cal.!

[Mark S.]

MDR, on Apr 29 2008, 07:49 PM, said:

Thanks, Mark. I will definitely give it a try. I've sped up to 60-70 mph 4-5 times in a row and really stomped on the brakes. This seemed to help with the brake noise for a few days, but now it's back.

Keep in mind, if there is any contamination on the brake pad it could be interfering with the bed in process. As I understand it, the rotors come from the factory with a preservative coating to minimize corrosion during shipping and those long waits in the showroom for a buyer... yeah right!

One of the dealer prep tasks is to clean the preservative off the rotors. If your dealer skipped this step you may have contaminated pads. If that's the case, the only remedy is to take the pads off, thoroughly clean the rotor with a solvent to remove any residual contamination and try to remove the layer of contamination from the pads (with a fine grit sandpaper).

In some cases, the only rememdy is new pads...

Either way, you MUST follow this with a good bed in. Once the pads are properly bedded into the rotor the squeeks and squeals should be gone for good -- unless you spray Armour All on the rotor while you're trying to shine up those wheels; ask me how I know...

Regards,

Mark

Lee, on Apr 29 2008, 06:46 PM, said:

Mark,
I swear, your the man. You are so through. Very informative, love reading your posts.

Hey, it's good to hear from my fan!

Keep it up Lee and I'll have to get a bigger helmet and a special head restraint... to go along with the special wrist and ankle restraints the nice "nurses" installed on my bed...

Seriously, you're quite welcome!

Regards,

Mark

[LittleJohn]

Mark S., on Apr 26 2008, 10:52 PM, said:

When you apply the brakes your Syder's speed is converted to worn away brake pad material and heat generated due to friction as the rotor wears away the brake pad. (Part of the rotor is also worn away, but nowhere near as much as the pads.) The brake pads actually "float" on a layer of brake dust -- worn away pad material -- between the rotor and pads which acts as a "lubricant" for lack of a better word.

If there is any chemical contaminant on the rotor or pads it could coat the pad, rotor or both (especially when the rotors/pads get hot) preventing the pads from wearing properly and depositing the requisite layer of dust on the rotor. Without that fine layer of dust, the pads can chatter -- rapidly grab and release. The chatter is so rapid, in fact, it sounds like a squeal. Think of a door hinge that needs lubrication and you get the idea.

Bedding in the brakes ensures the (clean) rotor is coated with a fine layer of necessary brake pad material while ensuring no contaminants interfere with the process.

To bed in the brakes:

1. You must ensure both the rotor and brake pads are clean and free of any contaminants. Thoroughly clean the rotor (both sides) with a solvent (I like acetone) to remove all oil and/or other residue. To clean the pads use a fine grit sand paper to remove a layer of material off the side facing the caliper. The intent is to remove enough pad material to take any contaminants too.

CAUTION: DON'T APPLY THE BRAKES WITH THE CALIPER REMOVED; THERE IS NOTHING TO STOP THE PISTON FROM PUSHING ALL THE WAY OUT OF THE CALIPER. IF THAT HAPPENS, ALL THE BRAKE FLUID IN THE LINE BEHIND THE PISTON WILL WIND UP ON THE FLOOR OF YOUR GARAGE/SHOP/DRIVEWAY. Ask me how I know...

If you somehow manage to ignore the above caution you will have to trailer your Spyder to the nearest dealer and have the lines bled -- there is no way I'm going to try to explain brake bleeding here...

2. Reinstall the pads being careful not to touch the rotor or pads (wear gloves).

3. Find a stretch of deserted road nearby. You'll probably need about three to five miles with no traffic behind you. Use the brakes as sparingly as possible until you can get to a stretch of deserted road. Pick a day with no rain and avoid any puddles which might splash road-grime-and-grease contaminated water on your brakes.

4. For the actual bed in procedure you accelerate to 70 - 80 mph, then apply the brakes with a medium to heavy pressure until slowed to 20 - 30 mph. You don't have to apply the brakes hard enough to engage the anti-lock, but don't be afraid to get on them hard, you are trying to generate as much brake dust as possible. Immediately accelerate back to 70 - 80 mph and repeat the cycle eight to ten times. NOTE: The brakes will get very hot; you will likely smell them for the first time. I probably don't have to tell you this, but DON'T TOUCH THEM! Aside from contaminating the rotors, you will likely burn yourself very badly.

5. After eight to ten cycles pull over and allow the brakes to cool for about 15 minutes before continuing. The cool down is important! Don't drive in traffic until the brakes have cooled. The rotors are going to be very hot and you don't want to sit stopped with the brakes pads clamped on the extremely hot rotors -- this might cause the rotors to warp.

If this doesn't stop the squealing you might need to actually replace the pads. If so, make sure you follow the same bedding in process.

I've bedded in the brakes on every new vehicle (motorcycle, car, Spyder) I've owned for the past 15 years -- no squeaky brakes. Brake bed in should be one of the first things you do when you get a new vehicle, or when you change pads and/or rotors on an old one.

Regards,

Mark

Mark, this ounds like fair advice. On new pad installation, do you still do the sanding, or just make sure the new pads are good and clean, maybe with some brake cleaner....?????
Thanks