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Spyder + Hindle exhaust = issues


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#1 BadDog

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 04:21 PM

Long story short, we had a new from the stealership 08 spyder and sold it as the wife wanted to try 2 wheels. It didn't work out sou we recently purchased a used 08 spyder that came with a Hindle exhaust.

The throttle response of the current spyder is slow compared to the other one we had. On a trip from PA to VA last year, the bike flashed the "check Engine" light and the wife pulled in to a gas station and shut it off. looking through the handy dandy manual, it said to try taking the key out of the ignition and trying to restart the bike after it had cooled down. This seemed to work. On a similar trip last weekend, it happened again. So we pulled in, left the bike cool down and the error cleared itself. When riding, the bike has a lot of backfiring going on on deceleration. Not just a decel pop, a lot of backfiring. When the error light came on again this time, I noted that the backfiring was more pronounced.

I'm sure this is air/fuel related. The old Spyder with the stock exhaust didn't do this. The old exhaust made the thing sound like a REALLY ANGRY lawnmower, while the Hindle sounds more like a twin should. We'd like to keep the Hindle on, but not if it's going to continue to be troublesome.

Has anyone else noticed anything similar with a Hindle or other aftermarket exhaust? Would a Power Commander or other fuel mod device help? Is there a factory mapping within the stock system that can be adjusted?

Thanks for your time
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#2 tjfischer

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 04:34 PM

Long story short, we had a new from the stealership 08 spyder and sold it as the wife wanted to try 2 wheels. It didn't work out sou we recently purchased a used 08 spyder that came with a Hindle exhaust.

The throttle response of the current spyder is slow compared to the other one we had. On a trip from PA to VA last year, the bike flashed the "check Engine" light and the wife pulled in to a gas station and shut it off. looking through the handy dandy manual, it said to try taking the key out of the ignition and trying to restart the bike after it had cooled down. This seemed to work. On a similar trip last weekend, it happened again. So we pulled in, left the bike cool down and the error cleared itself. When riding, the bike has a lot of backfiring going on on deceleration. Not just a decel pop, a lot of backfiring. When the error light came on again this time, I noted that the backfiring was more pronounced.

I'm sure this is air/fuel related. The old Spyder with the stock exhaust didn't do this. The old exhaust made the thing sound like a REALLY ANGRY lawnmower, while the Hindle sounds more like a twin should. We'd like to keep the Hindle on, but not if it's going to continue to be troublesome.

Has anyone else noticed anything similar with a Hindle or other aftermarket exhaust? Would a Power Commander or other fuel mod device help? Is there a factory mapping within the stock system that can be adjusted?

Thanks for your time


It doesn't sound like an issue with the Hindle.

I would do the following.

1. Check the relays, make sure they are seated properly.

2. Check the spark plugs, If its a used spyder The spark plugs may need to be gaped or replaced, also verify they are firing.

3. Check for Vacuum leaks, on the left side of the throttle body. This would definately cause performance issues.

4. If its ans SE5 make sure it has the grounding wire update.

5. Check the throtle cables, make sure they are adjusted correctly.

Since you are getting a check engine light, you should take it to the dealer, and have them give it a once over.

Just my 2 cents. good luck and keep us posted.
"Speak ill of no man, but speak all the good you know of everybody." Benjamin Franklin

#3 BadDog

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 04:59 PM

It doesn't sound like an issue with the Hindle.

I would do the following.

1. Check the relays, make sure they are seated properly.

2. Check the spark plugs, If its a used spyder The spark plugs may need to be gaped or replaced, also verify they are firing.

3. Check for Vacuum leaks, on the left side of the throttle body. This would definately cause performance issues.

4. If its ans SE5 make sure it has the grounding wire update.

5. Check the throtle cables, make sure they are adjusted correctly.

Since you are getting a check engine light, you should take it to the dealer, and have them give it a once over.

Just my 2 cents. good luck and keep us posted.


Thanks, I'll check these things and let you know.

In all fairness, I should state that the Spyder had just a little over 500 miles on it when we picked it up. The only warranty work done on it was some electronic steering fix and the parking brake fix. The spyder currently has 2420 miles on it. I just thought it odd that the backfiring became more pronounced and frequent when the error light was on than not.

I'll let you know what I find regarding the items you mentioned checking. Thanks again for your response. :)
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#4 Marc

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 05:04 PM

Good advice Tony. I agree, doesn't sound like the Hindle. I haven't really heard of any issues with them.

It doesn't sound like an issue with the Hindle.

I would do the following.

1. Check the relays, make sure they are seated properly.

2. Check the spark plugs, If its a used spyder The spark plugs may need to be gaped or replaced, also verify they are firing.

3. Check for Vacuum leaks, on the left side of the throttle body. This would definately cause performance issues.

4. If its ans SE5 make sure it has the grounding wire update.

5. Check the throtle cables, make sure they are adjusted correctly.

Since you are getting a check engine light, you should take it to the dealer, and have them give it a once over.

Just my 2 cents. good luck and keep us posted.


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#5 PWJ

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 05:15 PM

It doesn't sound like an issue with the Hindle.

I would do the following.

1. Check the relays, make sure they are seated properly.

2. Check the spark plugs, If its a used spyder The spark plugs may need to be gaped or replaced, also verify they are firing.

3. Check for Vacuum leaks, on the left side of the throttle body. This would definately cause performance issues.

4. If its ans SE5 make sure it has the grounding wire update.

5. Check the throtle cables, make sure they are adjusted correctly.

Since you are getting a check engine light, you should take it to the dealer, and have them give it a once over.

Just my 2 cents. good luck and keep us posted.


Changed spark plugs, muffler gasket and synchronized throttle body helped with backfiring problem. Not sure which item was bad or out of adjustment but the combination help.

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image


#6 Bigg Al

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 06:48 PM

I agree it does not sound like a Hindle problem. Have you tried to pull a fault code?
I have the shop manual and it has step by step how to get a fault code to show on your speedo. It is a little long winded but here it is.
1 - NOTE: A fault code must be active to be displayed.
Proceed as follows this only works if engine can be started.
Turn key on
Press mode button until you srcoll to engine hour on gauge. Start engine and run until CHECK ENGINE light lights or another message is displayed.
Press and HOLD MODE button while pushing the "flash high beam" button rapidly 5 times. (note the minimum of 5 flash hi beam toggles must be done within 2 seconds) otherwise start over from step 1.
Release all buttons. If there is no fault code the " no Active Fault code" will be displayed.
If there is a fault code it will show , example P-106. If there is more than one fault they will automatically scroll or you can press "MODE" to cycle thru. Have a pen a paper handy before you start.
There are 21 pages of codes so if you try this just respond with what if any show up. Good Luck I hope this will help you isolate the problem.
Ryde-on

#7 BadDog

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 07:14 PM

I agree it does not sound like a Hindle problem. Have you tried to pull a fault code?
I have the shop manual and it has step by step how to get a fault code to show on your speedo. It is a little long winded but here it is.
1 - NOTE: A fault code must be active to be displayed.
Proceed as follows this only works if engine can be started.
Turn key on
Press mode button until you srcoll to engine hour on gauge. Start engine and run until CHECK ENGINE light lights or another message is displayed.
Press and HOLD MODE button while pushing the "flash high beam" button rapidly 5 times. (note the minimum of 5 flash hi beam toggles must be done within 2 seconds) otherwise start over from step 1.
Release all buttons. If there is no fault code the " no Active Fault code" will be displayed.
If there is a fault code it will show , example P-106. If there is more than one fault they will automatically scroll or you can press "MODE" to cycle thru. Have a pen a paper handy before you start.
There are 21 pages of codes so if you try this just respond with what if any show up. Good Luck I hope this will help you isolate the problem.
Ryde-on


Thanks Bigg Al. I'll give that a try the next time it appears for sure. Does anyone on here have a pdf version of the service manual I could get a copy of? Or where can I get a shop manual? :)

Edited by BadDog, 08 May 2010 - 07:15 PM.

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#8 Bigg Al

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Posted 08 May 2010 - 07:53 PM

Thanks Bigg Al. I'll give that a try the next time it appears for sure. Does anyone on here have a pdf version of the service manual I could get a copy of? Or where can I get a shop manual? :)

I bought mine from the "Stealership" and I do not have a pdf version. Just so you know your engine light does not need to light to do the code search it can be done anytime. Good luck
Al

#9 BadDog

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 11:18 AM

Well, I checked and there are currently no Active Fault Codes. I believe the manual said performing the removal of the key and restarting the engine would clear the FC. So I'll keep the above notes and see if I can get a valid FC the next time it happens. Thanks again for all the help. :)

Edited by BadDog, 10 May 2010 - 12:57 PM.

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#10 KenB

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 03:27 PM

If you also have a green or some other performance air filter in addition to the Hindle you may be leaning out the mixture too much. Any time you make 'em breathe better you need to compensate for the additional air in the cylinders. This could cause nose over at high rpms, loss of power when accelerating, higher cylinder temps and various other things. A power commander or Juice box would help with a lean out problem. These engines run pretty lean right from the factory. Also loose relays, weak battery, vacuum leaks can cause strange syptoms. First and simplest thing to check are relays, then check coolant level and that the cap is on tight. Is the air cleaner clogged with oil or nice juicy bugs or dirt.

One of our units was acting really strange and I found a couple of loose relays and the battery needed an overnight trickle. Things have been "cool as cucumbers" ever since.
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#11 BadDog

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 11:21 AM

Thanks Bigg Al. I'll give that a try the next time it appears for sure. Does anyone on here have a pdf version of the service manual I could get a copy of? Or where can I get a shop manual? :)


Ok, it happened again last night on a ride. It seems to ONLY occur when we've been riding for over an hour and slow town to in-town speeds.

The fault code was: P0707 (I believe that was what it was anyway, this was all before Chinese buffet and Starbucks) :)

Checked the relays for looseness after last post and reseated em all to be safe.

Edited by BadDog, 21 May 2010 - 11:22 AM.

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#12 tjfischer

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 08:25 AM

Ok, it happened again last night on a ride. It seems to ONLY occur when we've been riding for over an hour and slow town to in-town speeds.

The fault code was: P0707 (I believe that was what it was anyway, this was all before Chinese buffet and Starbucks) Posted Image

Checked the relays for looseness after last post and reseated em all to be safe.


Sorry, there is not a P0707 fault code listed. Were there any other symptoms than the Check engine light coming on? Here are the P07XX Fault Codes.

Code: P071A
Module T
CM
Description:
Reverse Switch
Cause:
Reverse Switch out of range

Code: P0730
Module:
ECM
Description:
Gear Position Sensor
Cause:
Damage Circuit Wires, or Damaged Sensor or Damaged ECM Pins, or damaged Transmission

Code: P0730
Module:
TCM
Description:
Incorrect Gear Ratio
Cause:
Gear Info from ECM is different from calulated gear in TCM

Code: P0780
Module:
ECM
Descritpion:
Gear Change Time too Long
Cause: D
amage Circuit Wires, or Damaged Sensor or Damaged ECM Pins, or Damaged Transmission

Code: P0780:
Modules:
TCM
Description:
Shift Error
Cause:
Engineering DTC

Next time you get the code write it down. It will be easier to check. I hope the above Help.
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#13 Steelcitytransplant

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 05:39 PM

First of all have you had all the updates done, the second update is the most important. Next you can try the o2 modifier from Evoluzione to help richen the mix up. Most of us out their with a performance exhaust have had to add a performance intake or just a green filter plus the Juice box or equiv. and now I've added the 02 mod. and that has finally given me everything I hoped for, no more popping on decel, fantastic acceleration across the board. Again if you don't want to spend much go with the 02 modifier.
Campverdefela

#14 BadDog

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 05:11 AM

First of all have you had all the updates done, the second update is the most important. Next you can try the o2 modifier from Evoluzione to help richen the mix up. Most of us out their with a performance exhaust have had to add a performance intake or just a green filter plus the Juice box or equiv. and now I've added the 02 mod. and that has finally given me everything I hoped for, no more popping on decel, fantastic acceleration across the board. Again if you don't want to spend much go with the 02 modifier.


I know it's because it's 6 AM and I haven't had my coffee yet, but a search of the site for "update 2 or second update" didn't seem to return anything useful. Is there link to these mods you speak of? The only mod is the exhaust itself and the previous owner had done some computer steering update and the parking brake recall fix. I'll check the airbox to see what gremlins and air filter might be lurking in there. :) Thanks again everyone for your patience and help.

Checking Evoluzione's site now regarding the sensor. I'm not touching anything until I get a valid error code though so it could help future riders. :)

Kevin

Edited by BadDog, 26 May 2010 - 05:21 AM.

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#15 Steelcitytransplant

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 01:04 PM

I know it's because it's 6 AM and I haven't had my coffee yet, but a search of the site for "update 2 or second update" didn't seem to return anything useful. Is there link to these mods you speak of? The only mod is the exhaust itself and the previous owner had done some computer steering update and the parking brake recall fix. I'll check the airbox to see what gremlins and air filter might be lurking in there. :) Thanks again everyone for your patience and help.

Checking Evoluzione's site now regarding the sensor. I'm not touching anything until I get a valid error code though so it could help future riders. :)

Kevin

You can call the BRP toll free number in your manual or your dealer can check for you to see what updates your machine has had. Their are several software fixes they can try. But remember when you have just the exhaust mod done without adding more fuel your going to run too lean and this causes running issues.
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#16 doctor

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 05:57 PM

You can call the BRP toll free number in your manual or your dealer can check for you to see what updates your machine has had. Their are several software fixes they can try. But remember when you have just the exhaust mod done without adding more fuel your going to run too lean and this causes running issues.

I've got just the Hindle, and no problems, as of now. It seems to run just fine. No other engine mods.

#17 SpyderOwner

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 09:59 AM

The O2 modifier by itself does little to nothing.

I am reluctant to do anything else as BRP has already tried to tell my dealer that the O2 modifier voids my warranty.

#18 KenB

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 05:39 PM

BadDog my 08 was having backfire problems on decell but after the updates that problem went away. Ken krb1945

#19 Steelcitytransplant

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 06:11 PM

The O2 modifier by itself does little to nothing.

I am reluctant to do anything else as BRP has already tried to tell my dealer that the O2 modifier voids my warranty.

It depends on the machine, as they all run a little different. If you feel you may be running a little too lean it will add more fuel by tricking nanny into thinking its running too lean. As far as the warranty, BRP has to prove that your mods caused a problem, otherwise they have to honor it. That being said it is against the law to alter the emissions.
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#20 BadDog

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 11:21 AM

We called to get our spyder serviced and inspected and found out that the DP software update (Power Steering Recall) had some modifications to the EGR system included in the software update. This is supposedly what is causing the backfire issue. There is an ECM update that corrects the last update. :) So we'll try that and see if it fixes everything before we go the aftermarket mod route. Also picking up the 3 year extended warranty. Just seems like a good thing to have with a first year production vehicle. :)
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