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#1 BillG

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 07:46 PM

My owner's manual states "Use the XPS SYNTHETIC BLEND OIL (SUMMER GRADE) (P/N 293 600 121) or a 5W 40 semi-synthetic (minimum) or synthetic motorcycle oil meeting the requirements for API service SL, SJ, SH or SG classification. Always check the API service label on the oil
container."

Then it goes on to state "NOTICE To avoid damaging the clutch, do not use a motor oil meeting the API service SM or ILSACGF-4 classification. Clutch slippage will occur."

I used Mobil 1, 5W50 in my last bike (2006 Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive), which had an autimatic clutch. Mobil 1 oil does meet API Service SM and I had no problem with clutch slippage (even after 108,198 miles).

Does anyone have any experience with API Service SM motor oil in an SE5 transmission?

#2 Arthur---Mexico City

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 12:40 AM

My owner's manual states "Use the XPS SYNTHETIC BLEND OIL (SUMMER GRADE) (P/N 293 600 121) or a 5W 40 semi-synthetic (minimum) or synthetic motorcycle oil meeting the requirements for API service SL, SJ, SH or SG classification. Always check the API service label on the oil
container."

Then it goes on to state "NOTICE To avoid damaging the clutch, do not use a motor oil meeting the API service SM or ILSACGF-4 classification. Clutch slippage will occur."

I used Mobil 1, 5W50 in my last bike (2006 Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive), which had an autimatic clutch. Mobil 1 oil does meet API Service SM and I had no problem with clutch slippage (even after 108,198 miles).

Does anyone have any experience with API Service SM motor oil in an SE5 transmission?



#3 Arthur---Mexico City

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 12:56 AM

From Arthur---Mexico City,
Someone please explain. I understand that the use of synthetic oil is recommendable because it lubricates well, stands up, for 2 or 3 times the amount of miles that non synthetic oils do. I change the motor oil in my various vehicles every 5,000 km (3,000 miles) because of the contamination of solids and water that accumulate in the oil. Not because the oil loses its lubricating capacity. I think recommending using synthetic oils is a way of charging more for a new product replacing a satifactory product of lower cost.

#4 B1TTEN #509

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Posted 18 April 2010 - 04:53 PM

Your good to go Mobile 1 V-Twin MX4T and Amsoil are some of if not thee highest rated and top on the "White Paper" results. for you enjoyment

CLICK HERE FOR ANSWERS

#5 KenB

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 05:46 PM

The reason man-made synthetics are recommended is due to their ability to withstand heat, pressure, acids and a few other things I don't remember right now. It is called "shear factor" or strength to with stand gear pressure and still keep the moving metal parts separated. A few years ago Cycle World commissioned an independent test of the top three synthetics and the top three dinosaur oils. The leader in the dino oil which had a fish oil base and is an premium oil was 50 percent sheared at 2000 miles. If you have researched oils there is only one that is a fish oil base. In plain English it was totally worn out before 2000 miles under controlled conditions. The top Synthetic oil at 2000 miles under the same controlled test was only 8 percent sheared. In other words it was not hurt at all.

The good thing about synthetics is every molecule is identical to every other molecule. Synthetics flow better in the minus temperatures a real plus for those hardy souls that ride in the cold. Synthetics with stand much higher temperatures without breaking down. A plus for the hot summers a lot of us experience. / Ken krb1945-OEM

Edited by KenB, 20 April 2010 - 05:48 PM.


#6 Latemarch

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 10:07 AM

My owner's manual states "Use the XPS SYNTHETIC BLEND OIL (SUMMER GRADE) (P/N 293 600 121) or a 5W 40 semi-synthetic (minimum) or synthetic motorcycle oil meeting the requirements for API service SL, SJ, SH or SG classification. Always check the API service label on the oil
container."

Then it goes on to state "NOTICE To avoid damaging the clutch, do not use a motor oil meeting the API service SM or ILSACGF-4 classification. Clutch slippage will occur."

I used Mobil 1, 5W50 in my last bike (2006 Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive), which had an autimatic clutch. Mobil 1 oil does meet API Service SM and I had no problem with clutch slippage (even after 108,198 miles).

Does anyone have any experience with API Service SM motor oil in an SE5 transmission?


The SM rated oils in automobile oils have friction modifiers to meet the SM rating.
You can get SM rated oils that are certified for motorcycles that meet the standard without friction modifiers.
Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic for instance is rated SM and is certified JASO MA.
Shell Rotella T6 Link

#7 KenB

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 09:41 AM

I just went to the t6 link above and no where could I see where it states it is approved for motorcycles or wet clutches. Now don't miss understand... sometimes I need some help seeing things... in other words I sometimes "can't see for looking". I guess that comes in the aging process. So please help me find where it is worded in the link. I did see "energy saving" which means "friction modifiers" in all the research I've read. I believe it also said "fuel economy performance", I'm all for fuel savings on the spyders, but that also means "friction modifiers".

I even went to the walmart and checked out their bottles and I found one bottle of the pre-SM rating but the others have wording, like energy savings and fuel savings, and that makes me to think they have friction modifiers.

As I stated in another thread I use the rotella T in the blue bottle before it was rated SM for breakin oil. I also noticed they, shell, did not compare it to Motul or AMSOIL. They only compared it to lower the end oils.

By no means am I saying don't use it... I'm just asking where it says approved for wet clutches or motorcycles. In referencing oils I have always stated "use which ever oil and brand you trust and feel the most comfortable using but be aware sometimes without actually printing the words "friction modifiers" they are telling you they are in the product. Ken krb1945

Edited by KenB, 13 June 2010 - 09:42 AM.


#8 IWN2RYD

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 11:51 AM

If an onnwer of an RT-S SE5 wanted to get the AIMSOL what version, and where do we get it? :TgC_emoticon142:
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#9 Latemarch

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 08:55 PM

I just went to the t6 link above and no where could I see where it states it is approved for motorcycles or wet clutches. Now don't miss understand... sometimes I need some help seeing things... in other words I sometimes "can't see for looking". I guess that comes in the aging process. So please help me find where it is worded in the link. I did see "energy saving" which means "friction modifiers" in all the research I've read. I believe it also said "fuel economy performance", I'm all for fuel savings on the spyders, but that also means "friction modifiers".

I even went to the walmart and checked out their bottles and I found one bottle of the pre-SM rating but the others have wording, like energy savings and fuel savings, and that makes me to think they have friction modifiers.

As I stated in another thread I use the rotella T in the blue bottle before it was rated SM for breakin oil. I also noticed they, shell, did not compare it to Motul or AMSOIL. They only compared it to lower the end oils.

By no means am I saying don't use it... I'm just asking where it says approved for wet clutches or motorcycles. In referencing oils I have always stated "use which ever oil and brand you trust and feel the most comfortable using but be aware sometimes without actually printing the words "friction modifiers" they are telling you they are in the product. Ken krb1945


In the Specifications and Approvals box. JASO DH-2, MA is the motorcycle certification.
T6 has no friction modifiers.

#10 KenB

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 05:19 PM

LATEMARCH.... 10-4 on the T6. I don't know why I even look at the oil things... I use amsoil and have been using it since 1980. It goes in every engine I own. Somewhere around here I have a total of 15 engines that use it. One of them is 55 years old and never had a rebuild. Ken krb1945

Edited by KenB, 22 June 2010 - 05:19 PM.


#11 asmdjackal

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 03:36 PM

The SM rated oils in automobile oils have friction modifiers to meet the SM rating.
You can get SM rated oils that are certified for motorcycles that meet the standard without friction modifiers.
Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic for instance is rated SM and is certified JASO MA.
Shell Rotella T6 Link


For the heck of it I put in the Barnett clutch kit in my Spyder. The dealer asked what oil I had been using because my clutch looked a bit fried. I switched to the Synthetic Rotella as soon as my break in period was over...

Now, that might not be a oil issue, it might be the time I tried to teach my wife how to use a clutch that one afternoon...

Either way, I am switching to AMSOIL from the Rotella Synthetic. My 2 cents.
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#12 BillG

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 10:19 PM

I just went to the t6 link above and no where could I see where it states it is approved for motorcycles or wet clutches. Now don't miss understand... sometimes I need some help seeing things... in other words I sometimes "can't see for looking". I guess that comes in the aging process. So please help me find where it is worded in the link. I did see "energy saving" which means "friction modifiers" in all the research I've read. I believe it also said "fuel economy performance", I'm all for fuel savings on the spyders, but that also means "friction modifiers".

I even went to the walmart and checked out their bottles and I found one bottle of the pre-SM rating but the others have wording, like energy savings and fuel savings, and that makes me to think they have friction modifiers.

As I stated in another thread I use the rotella T in the blue bottle before it was rated SM for breakin oil. I also noticed they, shell, did not compare it to Motul or AMSOIL. They only compared it to lower the end oils.

By no means am I saying don't use it... I'm just asking where it says approved for wet clutches or motorcycles. In referencing oils I have always stated "use which ever oil and brand you trust and feel the most comfortable using but be aware sometimes without actually printing the words "friction modifiers" they are telling you they are in the product. Ken krb1945



Follow the link and not far down from the top you should see a "box" titled "Specifications and Approvals" and in that box you should see that this oil complies with JASO-MA, which is okay for wet clutches.

#13 BillG

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 08:19 PM

Very interesting that I started this thread and am now at the end (?) of it.

Since this thread was started, I have done a lot of research and have found that the API Service SM rating does NOT necessarily mean that friction modifiers have been added to an oil. My research has found that no synthetic oil on the market with a weight greater than 10W30 has friction modifiers.

An email answer from a Shell technician stated that the "old" Shell Rotella T 5W40 (full synthetic) is exactly the same as the "new" Shell Rotella T6, 5W40. The label was changed after samples were submitted for API Service SM certification and for JASO MA certification. The formula is the same, only the label has changed.

If you want to use Pennsoil or Quaker State heavy duty synthetic oil in your bike, you might as well switch to Rotella T6 now because those are made by Shell and are going to be withdrawn from the market because they are the same as Rotella T6.

Incidentally, if you look on the back lable of the BRP oil you will see "SOPUS", which stands for Shell Oil Products U.S. Might as well get the original rather than an over-priced re-labeled brand!

I will stick with the Rotella. I mean, 108,198 miles in 3.5 years on one bike then 25,021 miles in 175 days on another are good enough testament foor me!

Edited by BillG, 23 August 2010 - 08:25 PM.


#14 Roadkill

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 08:58 PM

+Several hundred thousand AMSOIL miles for me, following other brands.

I'm happy too.

Ride on.
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